rusty guide pins

[GetWithTheTines]

After taking apart my Wurlitzer 200 over the weekend, I discovered that it has experienced a problem with moisture over the years (maybe a spilled beer?). The treble end had several loose keys due to bushing felts falling out, and after finally disassembling and pulling out the keys, I discovered a fair amount of rust on the pins. I'm wondering how to address this. I was thinking of just using a scotch-brite pad and then some McLube 444. I'm curious to know what others have used for this. Any tips? Would steel wool be appropriate for that if the scotch-brite doesn't do the trick?

Also, the wood has been slightly damaged from the moisture. Nothing serious - it's still pretty solid; just some discoloration. Should I take the time to remove the pins and sand it down - or even sand around the pins?

Thanks.

[GetWithTheTines]

Well, the scotch-brite didn't do much, so I took some 220-grain sandpaper to it and that has been working pretty well. I sanded both the key frame and the pins themselves and they don't seem to have been damaged. Unfortunately, my fingers didn't fare so well. Trying to sand between those pins was difficult business. I probably could have done something more clever, like wrap the paper around a sponge brush or something.

If I was to do it again, I might take the pins out so that I could use a sanding block and soak the pins in some kind of solution. Can anyone comment on how much trouble it would be to remove and re-install the pins? Thanks.

[pianotuner steveo]

More trouble than it is worth, believe me! Just trying to pull them out can damage them by chewing up the metal.

Don't forget that the front rail pins are oval, not round, and turning them may cause keys to stick.

[bumpyrhode]

Dremel tool with buffing wheel and polishing compound. Dissamble and remove frame
from case so you can position it to easily get to pins. I wouldn't dare trying to remove
the pins.

[SlowMonroe]

It depends on the condition of the pins. They usually just need a little piano pin lube applied with a cotton ball. However, if the pins are brown and rusted, carefully remove them and glue in new pins, you can slightly sand and stain the keybed before you put in the new pins.

[pianotuner steveo]

Remove them and replace them with what? Removing the pins is not recommended. Also, the pins are not glued in, they are press fit. bumpyrhode's idea is a better recommendation.

[SlowMonroe]

There are new pins identical to the originals that you can get. Like I said before replacement is probably not needed. You need to find if the rust is affecting the action. Also, are the bushings very worn?

[GetWithTheTines]

Monroe: Several of the bushing felts had fallen out in the treble section. It really does appear as though something was spilled on the keys a long time ago because the key frame and the keys in the treble section also had some water damage and needed to be sanded. Fortunately, most of the rust is at the base of the front rail pins where the punchings were. I have already re-done the key bushings. I just want to make sure my pins are nice and clean before I put in the new punchings and put the keys back in.

bumpy/steveo: I tried the dremel tool with a buffing wheel (512E), but it wasn't doing a very good job and I went through 2 of them pretty quickly. This time I used a more coarse buffing wheel and it worked quite well; much less grueling than trying to use the sandpaper with my fingers. The coarsest wheel worked the best and lasted the longest. I'm glad the balance rail pins are ok b/c it would be much more difficult to get the buffing wheel between those pins. The next step will be to use some Mother's/Flitz to polish and protect and then apply some lubricant.

I've also been wondering if it would be a bad idea to swap out the key frame with that of another piano, or if they're interchangeable? A friend of mine has one that he's been using for parts so I might be able to pull the key frame from that -not at this point after all that work, but maybe sometime in the future. Also, has anyone ever re-created a key frame? You could just place the old one on top of the new board and drill right through it to get the proper placement of the holes. It might be difficult though, since the surface slopes down for the black keys.

Thanks, again!

[pianotuner steveo]

Each set of keys was set to fit its own key frame when made. Sometimes you can get lucky and swap just keys or frames, but sometimes you need to swap both the keys and the frame for a perfect fit.

Keys are cut like jigsaw puzzle pieces from one slab of wood, or laminated wood in some cases.

[sean]

Sanding the rust off the pin will also remove the protective coating from the pin (they usually have a very thin coating of nickel).  This is a problem in humid environments (basements, bathrooms, and Miami), but may not matter if the piano is kept in an air conditioned dry room.

The silicon oil that you use to lubricate felts will provide a bit of rust protection on the pins after the coating is sanded away.  I have a trashed keyframe that had deep dark brown rust (some pins are badly pitted from rust), and I removed the rust with sandpaper, vacuumed up the dust, and then wiped them down with silicon oil.  This keyframe has been in my basement for two years since then, and the rust has not returned.  The pins still shine and show the grain from the sanding.

My rust-removal technique was to reinforce a sheet of sandpaper with packing tape on the back side, then cut it into narrow strips, and then loop the strip around the pin, and scrub like a Shoeshine Boy (or like Underdog).  The tape keeps the sandpaper from ripping.  It worked great.

[I also tried using a dremel tool with a variety of sandpaper, wire brushes, and grinding wheels; but it is too hard to control the tool to prevent accidental gouges.  A groove cut by the grinding wheel would be worse than the pitting from the rust.]

The sanded pins will never look pristine and beautiful, but oh well.

You would probably have significant troubles pulling balance rail pins, because the maple keybed has dried out and hardened over the 30 years.  It will be easy to damage the hole in the balance rail while you are twisting and pulling on the pins.

The guide rail pins will be stubborn too, but since you can twist them, you might get them loose.  However, there is a very real probability that you will damage the wood while pulling a pin.  You are also nearly certain to trash the pin itself, but who cares - it is already rusty.  If you buy new pins, you will not enjoy trying to insert them into your old dry keybed.  If you try to hammer them in, you will distort the hole in the process, and the pin will be loose.  Even if you have an arbor press, it will be a whole lotta trouble.

If there was only one or two pins that needed to be repaired or replaced, then maybe it would be worth attempting.  If the hole is a little loose, a dab of epoxy would secure the pin.  Not ideal, not adjustable, but workable. 


If the rust is only at the bottom of the guide pin, it will not matter as much as if it were further up the pin.  The keys don't travel to the bottom of the guide pin anyway.  [On a Rhodes.]

However, you mentioned that the pins you are concerned with have punchings around them, so these must be the balance rail pins you are talking about.  Rust at the bottom of the balance rail pin is not as bad as rust up near the top of the pin.  The balance rail bushing is up in the key button, so it rubs against the pin near the top of the pin.

I think that if you sand away the rust, and wipe away the dust with an oiled paper towel, your piano will make music again, and the action should be fine.



You probably will never succeed in creating your own balance rail, the pins are not inserted into the wood perfectly vertically (they lean backward).   [I wonder if this is true for all years of manufacture.]  Drilling holes for them is a challenge;  Inserting the pins will also be a challenge.

Stealing somebody else's keyframe might work, might not.  It is worth a try.
     -  However, you might find that it turns into a fiddly pain trying to get it to work.  You have to get the keyframe mounted precisely into your piano such that the pedestals line up perfectly with your hammers. 
     -  However, the factory was able to make this work out, so you probably can too if the two keyframes were made chronologially close together.  (I wouldn't expect a 1979 keyframe to work perfectly in a 1973 piano without some modification.)

Sean

[sean]

Oh good grief! 

I just noticed that your post is about a Wurly, not a Rhodes!    Oh well.   

Sean