Twin Reverb vs Rhodes Suitcase Cabinet

[dzlvs8]

Ok.  I own a 76 Suitcase 88 MK1.  I just bought a twin reverb yeaterday and am now waiting for it in the mail.  was that prettymuch a waste of my money since i already have the suitcase amp?  i was hooked on getting one over this weekend to use for my clavinet and wurlitzer 200a, but MAINLY I wanted it for my rhodes.   I just found out yeaterday that the input 1 and 2 on the suitcase preamp works as an effects loop.  So I guess I could just throw a tube preamp and wah on that and would be good.  unfortunately, my taz return was huge and it was too late.  i was already dead set on buying a vintage Twin reverb for the rhodes.  Am i going to get much different of a tone?  I mean, I know that the rhodes amp isnt tube.  I planned on buying a tube preamp to run through the effects loop and then into the rhodescabinet.  But I dont know if thats even easily possible (too much gain?).

What I am really wondering, since fender used twin reverbs to test rhodes stage pianos does that mean the tone of the speakers is abiut the same between a twin reverb and my suitcase.   im thinking I really might not have needed this twin reverb after all.


?
Thanks in advance

[Rob A]

I doubt you'll find much similarity in tone actually. I'm not personally a huge tube distortion fan, but many people swear by that. You'll really have to just try and see what meets your musical needs best. The purchase of the twin probably isn't a horrible mistake--it's a sought after piece of gear that ought to hold value well even if you don't end up needing it for your rig.

So at worst it's a detour, not a mistake.

[dzlvs8]

I doubt you'll find much similarity in tone actually. I'm not personally a huge tube distortion fan, but many people swear by that. You'll really have to just try and see what meets your musical needs best. The purchase of the twin probably isn't a horrible mistake--it's a sought after piece of gear that ought to hold value well even if you don't end up needing it for your rig.

So at worst it's a detour, not a mistake.

Wow, You are one of the few thst don't like tube distortion.  Anyway, like I said, Im not looking for tons of distortion.  The twin reverb is a very clean tube amp.  FYI Fender used twin reverbs to test and develop the rhodes and they pushed the pair as a combo for stage models.  That means, its obviously a good amp to use.  Im just suspicous of whether that also then means that it sounds very very similar to a suitcase cabinet. 

My suitcase can sound very very bassy.  I know a twin cant.  So I am hoping for better tone.  i really dont like the sound of my rhoses straight into the suitcase cabinet.  Its somewhat better with a wah pedal, but still too dry and a little muddy.  plus, the wah pedal makes the signal too hot for the suitcase cabinet in the top end. 

[The Real MC]

Suitcase amp is solid state and full bandwidth.

Twin Reverb is tube with not-so-full-bandwidth.

Both sound very different.  Suitcase amp will put out 80w (early three knob Peterson design) or 100w (later slidepot Haigler design) of clean distortion free power.  Twin Reverb has mild tube overdrive that adds harmonics and changes the tone (it won't go into full bore distortion).  Twin does miss out on the bass end but you don't always want full bass tone if you have a bass player with you.

Speakers are different in either system and that impacts the tone.

If it were my choice I'd go with the twin.  My silvertop suitcase bottom cabinet was missing the power amp and speakers.  They never sounded that great and I prefer the empty suitcase bottom as a lightweight piano stand and playing around with other amps.

[dzlvs8]

I doubt you'll find much similarity in tone actually. I'm not personally a huge tube distortion fan, but many people swear by that. You'll really have to just try and see what meets your musical needs best. The purchase of the twin probably isn't a horrible mistake--it's a sought after piece of gear that ought to hold value well even if you don't end up needing it for your rig.

So at worst it's a detour, not a mistake.

Wow, You are one of the few thst don't like tube distortion.  Anyway, like I said, Im not looking for tons of distortion.  The twin reverb is a very clean tube amp.  FYI Fender used twin reverbs to test and develop the rhodes and they pushed the pair as a combo for stage models.  That means, its obviously a good amp to use.  Im just suspicous of whether that also then means that it sounds very very similar to a suitcase cabinet. 

My suitcase can sound very very bassy.  I know a twin cant.  So I am hoping for better tone.  i really dont like the sound of my rhoses straight into the suitcase cabinet.  Its somewhat better with a wah pedal, but still too dry and a little muddy.  plus, the wah pedal makes the signal too hot for the suitcase cabinet in the top end.

I like what you are saying.  I understand that I will loose the bass.  I do like the bass at times on my suitcase cab, but the focus on so much low end on my cab is exactly what I don't like about it.  I'm hoping the twin was a good choice.  I'm thinking that it probably wasn't the thing that I was missing most in my rig, but I am hoping to like its tone a lot more.  And I really like how much fuller and tubey my rhodes sounds through a tube amp simulator soo.....

[Rob A]

Way back when I wrote up some blab about frequency response of the suitcase bottom:

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=3288.0

Synopsis: the suitcase bottom colors tone substantially.

I've got some better analysis tools now, I may revisit this topic.

[Alan Lenhoff]

I've never owned a suitcase, and I'm no expert in audiology, but I wonder how any suitcase cab can sound good when the speakers are pointed at your knees. 

I'm thinking that if you took the same amp and speakers from a Suitcase and positioned them away from the piano (maybe on an amp stand or on tilt-back legs pointed toward your ears) that you'd hear all sorts of rich mid- and upper frequency nuances that would be lost in the conventional Suitcase speaker position.

Comments?

Alan

[Ben Bove]

Yes you are entirely correct about suitcase at the knees.  It's a very clever and interesting idea they had to make the amp a stand as well, but something does get lost to the player as the sound travels up to the ears.

Point in case is when I listen to someone else playing a Rhodes suitcase while I'm standing back or away from the unit.  It sounds entirely different.  Also, if you add a pair of monitors plugged into the stereo outs at your ear level, it's an entirely different experience.

[The Real MC]

I've never owned a suitcase, and I'm no expert in audiology, but I wonder how any suitcase cab can sound good when the speakers are pointed at your knees.

I say the same freaking thing when guitar players leave their amps on the ground with the speakers pointed at their knees 

Another reason I do not lament the missing power amp and speakers in my silvertop.

[Alan Lenhoff]

Yes you are entirely correct about suitcase at the knees.  It's a very clever and interesting idea they had to make the amp a stand as well, but something does get lost to the player as the sound travels up to the ears.

Point in case is when I listen to someone else playing a Rhodes suitcase while I'm standing back or away from the unit.  It sounds entirely different.  Also, if you add a pair of monitors plugged into the stereo outs at your ear level, it's an entirely different experience.

I find that with my Stage, even with my amp on a tilt-back stand pointed toward me, having someone else play it and listening from a distance makes it sound even better.  And, strangely enough, hearing it from some distance seems to make it sound louder, too. Can't really explain that phenomenon...

Alan

[David Aubke]

I've always used my amplifier as a seat. There's never an appropriate chair at the venue and a Twin-sized amp is the perfect height.

[The Real MC]

I find that with my Stage, even with my amp on a tilt-back stand pointed toward me, having someone else play it and listening from a distance makes it sound even better.  And, strangely enough, hearing it from some distance seems to make it sound louder, too. Can't really explain that phenomenon...

Ambience, room reflections.  As you move away from the amp, you're hearing the reflections accumulating at your point of reference.

[Alan Lenhoff]

Ambience, room reflections.  As you move away from the amp, you're hearing the reflections accumulating at your point of reference.

That would certainly explain it, especially considering that my amp has an open back, and is parked just in front of a wall, and near a corner of the room.  Sounds are probably reflecting in all sorts of directions.

Alan

[pianotuner steveo]

Hmmmm..... I use a Mark II suitcase bottom with my Voldermort,  and I have no problem with the sound being pointed at my knees, but then again, I do not gig with it.
It s very loud.. I also run my xk3 through it with no problems.

[The Real MC]

It s very loud.. I also run my xk3 through it with no problems.

That must be... stimulating... with the Leslie sim on "fast" 

[Abraham]

I don't mean to sound unkind in any way but... why don't just wait and hear for yourself, and make your own choice instead asking unknown people in a forum?
I wish I had the money to try out myself as you do...

Same about swapping the JBL speakers inside the fender twin.... Hell no! I won't even dare to touch such a classic! come on! You didn't even got this delivered, how in this world could you base such decision on other's thoughts? Just be patient and judge for yourself.

There's much "bla bla bla..." about valves, tube stuff, vinyls.... there are a lot of guitarist arguing about concepts they understand just partially, so don't get infected on such statements before you even get the thing on your hands. Better speakers to have on a twin must be -for sure- the original ones, as long as you're looking for the classic sound of the twin reverb... otherwise don't waste all the extra cash getting a classic/expensive hard-to-maintain gear such as a fender twin.

And about the rhodes, what to say, I own a suitcase and I love the sound. I will miss all that bass on a twin... just my personal choice anyway...
Again, don't take my words wrong...

[pianotuner steveo]

Yes real MC,
Quite

Especially when you hit the brake once in a while