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Wurli line out

Started by maestro, March 01, 2012, 10:44:46 AM

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maestro

Ahoy,
I'm having trouble with getting clean line out signals from a pair of wurli 206's that have been updated to 200A specs. Is it possible to take the line out signal directly from the reed bar pickup?

Basically the headphone output is too dirty for studio use, and the main line out circuit sounds even worse.

Any help is appreciated!
adam

pianotuner steveo

#1
No, you can not take an output from the pickup.
(without power)

It sounds like you may need to add a resistor to the aux out jack, or use a direct box. Remember,this is AUX out, not LINE out, they are different. Line out is real high impedance, like CD player signal.
Headphone out is usually around 32 ohms. AUX out can be anywhere from 200- a few thousand ohms.

Vintage vibe sells a little passive box to correct this problem.




1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

maestro

Thanks for the info. A few questions - the "little passive box"...Can you describe it? I can't find it on their website. Does it go inside the piano or does it plug into the AUX output? Is its purpose to convert the high-impedance signal to a more useful level?

I'd like to solve the problem at the source if possible...(and avoid VV if possible) Using the built-in amp for the 2x8" speakers is great, but I'd like one clean-as-can-be output for studio use. For gigging I'm fine taking the headphone signal. Though, sometimes I get funny noises...

Where on the amp board can I tap a low level output? Any suggestions??

Thanks again
adam

pianotuner steveo

I am not the one to get too detailed about the internal electronics, since my expertise is in the piano section. Someone else here may be able to help further with amp specifics. Having said that, the little external box I bought from vintage vibe connects to the output under the left side of the keyboard, then you run a second cord from the box to an amp, or recording devce. A trim pot on the input may help.

The vintage vibe box is a Small black box that easily fits into your palm. I do not know if they still offer it. It has a 1/4" input, and a 1/4" output.

It is most likely just a resistor and a cap in series with the + wire, but I do not know the values.
Many many years ago, i had instructions for doing this and made a cord with those parts soldered right into one 1/4" plug when I had a 120, and it worked well.
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

andi85

#4
Any chance there's something wrong with your Wurly amp? If your piano doesn't produce a proper signal no outboard device will help.

What's the matter with your signal anyway? Does it distort, is the noise floor too high, or is it just too quiet? Any information on that could be helpful to get a better idea of what's wrong.
Tuning instruments makes the band sound thin!

maestro

My 206 has two outputs, headphone; a powered output for the speakers padded down by an 8ohm/5W resistor, and AUX; an output added by the vintage vibe upgrade kit (vibrato + aux out).

The Aux out has never worked well - just a poor quality signal on both 206's i've been working on. It isn't distorting, the signal quality is simply reduced, perhaps 'low, yet noticeable white noise and poor frequency response' is the best way to describe it.

The padded power amp output works best for my applications (live use), but sometimes it acts up (strange noises that are too infrequent to have the issue start on command for a recording device).

I'm interested in bypassing as much circuitry as possible in the power module, even going as far as using an external preamp. Is this possible?

p.s. what is noise floor?

pianotuner steveo

#6
No, you can not bypass the electronics in a wurlitzer. (To get a passive signal)

Then what I think you need to do, is look at the aux out that was added and see what the resistor value is, and play around with different value resiitors until it sounds best to you with the equipment you are connecting to. It sounds like the resistors in there have too high of a value.

Strange random noises are usually caused by dust/ dirt/ solder filings/ or condensation in the reed bar.

1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

maestro

#7
I only mean to bypass some, not all of the electronics; specifically the amplifier modules.

low and behold, staring at the schematic for an hour reveals the answer to my OP. I'm 99.9% certain I can steal the signal between the preamp and aux/power amps. I'll let you know how it works out.

maestro

This new line out is perfect! Especially in-studio as you get a super clean source to start with and treat however you like. I thought it was pretty damn nice through a Champ (single-ended 6v6, 5w), I have a similar circuit with master volume which I think should be a full time "preamp" (after the reed bar p/u). this is gonna be sweet.


andi85

Champ and Wurlitzer is a great team :)
Tuning instruments makes the band sound thin!

pianotuner steveo

#11
 Maestro: it sounded to me like you were asking if one can take a PASSIVE signal from the pickup.

I was saying that you need to power up a wurli in order for the reed bar to do its job, and I added info above to clarify.

Maybe we both should have been a little clearer.

1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

fozziemusic

Hi there everybody. This is my maiden post, I own a 200a and a rhodes 73 stage, and have used this resource passively already for a long time (including the previous forum version), so thank you already!

Now, concretely, I am very interested in taking a very clean signal out of my 200a since like maestro, I experience much worse signal/noise ratio from both phone and aux outs than through the internal speakers (nice and quiet, but the line out give lots of white noise and some other noises intermittently)

Maestro: could you explain from which points on the circuit board you have taken a line-out to your Champ or external preamp? Directly from the reed bar output where it comes onto the main board (is this possible anyway)? I can live with not recording the vibrato (tremolo!) and not having volume control on the piano for recording purposes.
I have a tube preamp that is / emulates the first gain stage of a fender amp, so looking forward to testing that with the clean line out.

Would appreciate any hints

Paul / Fozziemusic

Filmosound 621

warning, this topic is a billion years old.   :)



but intesting, since the solid state amp on my 207 needs some help, I am thinking about a tube amp conversion with a champ chassis.


interesting site with lots of info about the conversion into a "passive" instrument:


https://viva-analog.com/wurlitzer-270-passive-conversion/


I need help to understand that in full, but not now please.   :)

bugjobsoofusbrain

i know this a suuper old thread but if maestro or anyone had any info on how to do this bypass mod id be forever grateful.