Author Topic: voicing procedure advice  (Read 5433 times)

Offline Abraham

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voicing procedure advice
« on: February 05, 2013, 06:42:52 AM »
Would you guys please share your procedure for a correct voicing? I'm not asking for a step by step guide as we already have one, but some hints about what a certain note should sound like in terms of frequency spectrum.

I have no reference of what a clean unprocessed rhodes *should* sound like, I used to set up my suitcase acording to what sounds best to my ears, but when it comes to recording from plain line out it doesnt sound good, its way too bassy compared to sample libraries and I don't really know if thats a matter of voicing or eq.

I would really love to hear a clean raw recording straight from harp line out (bypassing tone controls please!) from a properly voiced rhodes, a single key from every octave would be great, so I can use it as a template for my voicing. If anyone could be so kind to contribute with such recording I'm sure it would be helpful for some of us. Thank you.

196x Hammond L100
1976 Rhodes MKI '73 Suitcase
1976 Wurlitzer 200-A EP
1981 Casio VL-Tone (Yeah!)
199x Kawai CX-21D Upright
20xx Clavia Nord Electro 2

Offline Rob A

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 07:20:08 AM »
Not exactly what you requested, but take a look at this and see if it helps:

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=3264


Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 08:47:13 AM »
In general, the Rhodes are very bassy, it sounds more like an EQ issue rather than voicing from your description, however the timbre adjustment could be off also.

What a Rhodes should sound like is somewhat subjective, it depends on you and your ears. Some people like the crisp bell like tone, I personally prefer the darker, less trebly tone.

Making a consistent tone and volume from key to key is what voicing is about, but the way you set your timbre will vary from person to person based on preference. ( you set timbre by changing the angle of the tine tip in relation to the pickup)

See figure 4-8 in Rob's link above.

You change volume by moving the pickup closer or farther away from the tine.


Make sure your escapement is set properly first.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 08:52:32 AM by pianotuner steveo »
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

Offline Abraham

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2013, 01:54:36 PM »
thank you guys, this post is very informative, I already knew how this works, but still, what I need is a refference to make it sound like it should, despite what I think this should sound like. A recording from a properly voiced harp would really help

thanks
196x Hammond L100
1976 Rhodes MKI '73 Suitcase
1976 Wurlitzer 200-A EP
1981 Casio VL-Tone (Yeah!)
199x Kawai CX-21D Upright
20xx Clavia Nord Electro 2

Offline Abraham

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 08:19:15 AM »
Here my results, please let me know what you think

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5156835/Output%201-2.mp3

Recorded straight from output 2, unprocessed (the suitcase preamp is active so it couldn't process signal while turned off)
I still think its too bassy, don't you? I've set the tines close to fundamental and the pickups not-that-close to tines
196x Hammond L100
1976 Rhodes MKI '73 Suitcase
1976 Wurlitzer 200-A EP
1981 Casio VL-Tone (Yeah!)
199x Kawai CX-21D Upright
20xx Clavia Nord Electro 2

Offline Rob A

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 09:46:07 PM »
Interesting. I own a 76 suitcase too, and I record direct mainly. Yours sounds nothing like mine, but in ways I'm not sure I can convincingly describe.

Offline Abraham

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 05:55:46 AM »
Thank you Rob for listening. Do you think it's voiced correctly? It doesn't sound too good to me, I'm tempted to get the pickups closer on the lower end... besides the middle and higher end still sound too bassy, so the whole keyboard sounds flat without EQ

also, if words couldnt describe the difference in sound, a short recording from yours would be great :)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 06:10:01 AM by Abraham »
196x Hammond L100
1976 Rhodes MKI '73 Suitcase
1976 Wurlitzer 200-A EP
1981 Casio VL-Tone (Yeah!)
199x Kawai CX-21D Upright
20xx Clavia Nord Electro 2

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 07:27:55 AM »
It sounds pretty good to me, maybe your bass notes need a little finer tuning. What do you use for tuning? A tuner or a software based tuner?

1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

Offline Abraham

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 09:13:33 AM »
hey steve thank you for listening,

I agree tuning needs some adjusting. I use software based tuner but last time I tried streetching by ear ignoring what the tuner pointed... to no avail as you have noticed, but that's something I can deal with, once Im done with voicing

again, thank you guys
196x Hammond L100
1976 Rhodes MKI '73 Suitcase
1976 Wurlitzer 200-A EP
1981 Casio VL-Tone (Yeah!)
199x Kawai CX-21D Upright
20xx Clavia Nord Electro 2

Offline Rob A

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 05:42:25 PM »
a short recording from yours would be great :)

I'll try to get that posted.

Offline Dan Belcher

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 06:21:28 PM »
For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with using a little EQ. By nature, the Rhodes creates an extremely bass-filled soundscape. It really helps to get rid of some of that with EQ.

I took your clip and slapped a basic EQ plugin on it (highpass filter at 75hz to get rid of some of the low end rumble, a pretty wide 3db cut at 150hz, and a 4db notch at 450hz (since that frequency range gets kind of boxy sounding pretty easily). This makes it just sound a little more clear and punchy without really making it bright or anything. See if you like what it did to the sound. https://www.dropbox.com/s/xuerxe5pwdh73pe/eq.mp3
Proud owner,
1978 Rhodes Mark I Stage 73

Offline Abraham

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 06:25:56 PM »
I just don't like to admit the instrument alone sounds not-that-good, even if I agree EQ makes it better... And I did some sort of improvement already just voicing.

I think if I start with a good raw sound, then I could make it better with further process. I'd like to use EQ to improve, not for fixing what sounds bad in the first place.

Still, I would like to hear some examples from some of you & your instruments

thanks for posting!
196x Hammond L100
1976 Rhodes MKI '73 Suitcase
1976 Wurlitzer 200-A EP
1981 Casio VL-Tone (Yeah!)
199x Kawai CX-21D Upright
20xx Clavia Nord Electro 2

Offline Rob A

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2013, 04:51:52 PM »
Here's mine for comparison:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25143948/rob-output.mp3

Mine is much less fundamental compared to yours. I tried to level match as best I could with your clip.

Offline jzwoopwoop

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2013, 10:51:23 AM »
Hi all,
As someone who recently bought a Rhodes that needed some fixing up and voicing work, just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate the advice and collective knowledge in this thread. And also, your timing couldn't be better :P

Offline Abraham

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2013, 06:52:06 PM »
thank you rob, you were right to say there's a big difference words couldn't describe!
196x Hammond L100
1976 Rhodes MKI '73 Suitcase
1976 Wurlitzer 200-A EP
1981 Casio VL-Tone (Yeah!)
199x Kawai CX-21D Upright
20xx Clavia Nord Electro 2

Offline Rob A

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Re: voicing procedure advice
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2013, 10:50:04 AM »
Are you still looking for the single note strikes? I don't mind posting such a thing, but my voicing is really just what sounded right to me, for my playing style and musical preference. There's nothing authoritative about it.

My escapement is lower than a factory setup would give by about 0.035" or jsut shy of 1mm. I don't fully appreciate the impact of that on tone, but I pay a lot more attention to dynamic range than to tone in my setup, in that I never had to "search" for a good tone out of mine, it seems pretty nice however it's set up.