Wurlitzer 200 tuning price?

[apple_scruff]

I don't know if this the place to ask but here goes. What should I expect to pay to have my Wurlitzer 200 tuned? I am a little concerned that my patience level maybe exceeded if I attempt this. I know this is tough question because of uncertainties such as reed condition, how bad is it out of tune, etc...

I guess I am looking for a ballpark figure and any reputable people my area say up to 6 hour drive. I live in central pa.

Thanks,
Steve

[pianotuner steveo]

That is a tough one. You usually do not have to tune all 64 reeds, but if you could even find people, you would have to compare their hourly rates, and levels of experience. It's not a straight forward tuning like acoustic pianos or Rhodes, both of which can be done in an hour or less by an experienced tech. I do not know any tech willing to travel 6 hours to work on one piano...
I am probably 4-5 hours fom you, and I wouldn't go that far. I dont even travel 90 minutes for service calls.

Anyway,
I dont know if this ever came up here before or not, but there is an easier way to flatten the notes other than adding solder.
Beeswax can be added to the solder blob at the end of a reed to lower the pitch.
Raising the pitch is easy, you just slowly file away solder, being careful not to short out the pickups.

Anyway, I really doubt you can find someone to just quote you $x for wurlitzer tunings vs $y for a Rhodes or $z for an acoustic piano. There are just too many variables time wise.

[velo-hobo]

Yeah, I don't know if there is anything close to a standard rate when it comes to wurlitzer tuning since it is sort of an obscure and specialized service, and on top of that it depends on the condition of the individual instrument in question.  Unless they are a big shop that does a *lot* of service, I would imagine most techs charge hourly, and maybe have set prices for certain typical services that require a known amount of labor, such as reed replacement.

In any case, since you seem to be so far from the nearest reputable tech, I encourage you to learn to tune the piano yourself.  You've already got your hands dirty with the action and the amp, may as well develop the confidence to repair anything in there, right?  It will save you a lot of headaches in the long run - when something goes out of tune you can just fix it!

I think tuning is substantially easier than action adjustments - the tuner will provide a quantitative reference with relative ease compared to setting lost motion, let off, aftertouch, etc (as well, these are parameters which may vary depending on the individual tastes of the player)

Focus on just one reed at first.  Review the service manual section on tuning a few times before you start.  It's not terribly complicated, but it requires a bit of artful concentration and patience, with a pinch of mechanical aptitude (which you seem to have).

Regarding easy ways to flatten a reed without solder, if the correction needed is relatively small, you can try loosening the reed screw and pushing the reed towards the pickup before re-tightening.  This effectively lengthens the reed by a small amount.

There is also a very fine tuning adjustment which can be made by adjusting the tightness of the reed screw.  This is possible because the reed screw washer is conical, and thus a spring which can exert a varying amount of clamping force.  There is a very limited amount of useful adjustment available - too loose and the reed will not sound properly, too tight and you run out of adjustment and risk breaking the screw.  The range of this adjustment is probably less than an eighth of a turn on the screw.

As Steve said, wax will also work in a pinch, such as right before/during a gig or when no tools are on hand.

Also I recommend removing reeds from the piano if you're going to file them.  I think you just risk getting filings in the pickup or damaging the pickup with file.  I have seen a number of wurlitzers with file scars on the pickups! Also, wipe the metal dust off the reed before you reinstall it

And make sure there is no dirt or corrosion on the mating surfaces of the screw, reed, and harp.  This will just rob you of tone and sustain by preventing good electrical continuity from the reed to ground.

[apple_scruff]

Thanks guys. If you guys can bear with me and my dumb questions I may just attempt this. I have made a list of where each key is currently at and attached a picture of my notes. It looks like I have a handful of very troubled reeds. Keys 23,24,43,45,46,47,48,50,51,52 seem to the worst offenders. The worst ones being 47,51,52. Is there a rule of thumb to how far a reed can be out and still be saved?

I really appreciate the help.

I forgot to mention the list is in cents out of tune...

[velo-hobo]

Tuning a reed even a semitone (100 cents) or more sharp or flat is pretty easy to do (on purpose or on accident).  The place you run into trouble is if you need to raise the pitch and there isn't much solder left on the reed to begin with.

I don't know if there's an exact formula for acceptable amounts of solder on the reed, because I've seen fine-sounding reeds in pianos that had very little or huge mountains of solder on them.  I would suspect though, that there is a range which provides optimum tone and sustain.  That's something you have to judge for yourself on a case-by-case basis.

Once I broke a reed shortly before a show.  I didn't have an exact replacement on hand so I used the next lower-pitched reed.  The difference in length was negligible, so once the solder was filed down enough it sounded perfectly acceptable to my ear.

Looking at your list, there may only be a handful that need solder or filing.  A great many of them could probably be tuned by adjusting the reed position fore/aft.

The trickiest ones are the treble reeds which have small metal plates connecting the bases of two reeds.  You have to remove both to get at one of them for solder or filing, which means you have to reposition two reeds to complete the job.  If there are any of those that need work, I'd save them for later when you are more confident in the mechanics of it.

In the case of those particular reeds,  I find that I can often avoid the hassle of removing them by using the screw-tightness method to achieve minor tuning adjustments.  I want to reinforce that the range of adjustment using that method is pretty small, and the usable range may vary from reed to reed.

[apple_scruff]

Well I am 24 reeds into the tuning and so far so good. Thus far I have only had to add solder to two of the reeds and file one. I will do more later today. I can see how the treble reeds will be more of a pain then the bass ones. So far I have about an hour or so in it.

I do have two more questions. How critical do you get them in? +/- .2 cents.  Do you tune on the attack or decay?

Thanks for the encouragment and the tips.

[pianotuner steveo]

How close you get them is personal prefernce, but IN GENERAL, the tenor should be relatively beatless, the treble should be slightly sharp, and the bass should be slightly flat. This is just a rough guide. Tuning each note 'perfectly' to +/-  0 cents makes them sound too sterile, or digital to my ears.
That is my main complaint with digital samples of Wurlis ( and acoustic pianos) The tuning is always too perfect.

I would first worry about the notes that are more than 5 or 6 cents off, ( especially over 10 cents) then go back to fine tune. As Velo-hobo suggested,the notes that are close can be fine tuned just by slightly turning the reed screw, but be careful not to overtighten and snap a head off.
Also, treble reeds can break in your fingers, be extra careful with them.

I tune the attack note, they all change as they decay.

[apple_scruff]

Well I did it!!! It is tuned and I am very pleased!!!

I found it easier to remove the damper assemblies. It took me about 3 hours total and this was my first time tuning a Wurlitzer. The reeds with the metal brackets were the worst.

I want to thank you guys again for the encouragement and information it was very helpful.

Now I may work on quieting the preamp stage of the pcb.

Thanks Again,
Steve

[pianotuner steveo]

Excellent!  You easily saved yourself at least $225..