Note 55 sounds dead (with audio clip)

[ZioKiller]

Hello,
my 1977 Stage 73 Mk I has a note, number 55 (an A#), which sounds "dead", with no sustain.
You can listen to a small audio example downloading this file:
http://www.soundfonts.it/MyRhodes/Note55.mp3

As you can hear, the surrounding notes sound properly, while the A# has a fast decay. I tried to unscrew and then screw the tine back very tight, clean the tonebar and the tine itself, replace the grommets, replace the hammer tip and the damper felt, but nothing helped.
Shall I have to replace the tine?
All my tonebars have some rust, but this seems to be irrelevant as all other notes sound pretty good.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Guido

[hrees]

Unscrew the whole tone generator assembly for that note (tonebar + tine). Take the grommets and screws out. Pluck the tine by hand while making sure you don't damp the note. If it still fails to ring then replace the tine.

Otherwise unless you have fitted brand new grommets then that may well be your problem.

[ZioKiller]

That tine failed to ring with the old (original) grommets, that's why I replaced them. And effectively it doen't ring even if I hit it with a finger, away from the tonebar rail. So I have to replace it... too bad.

I wonder what happens to the tine when it stops ringing that way, I mean.. all in all it's just a little piece of iron, it looks perfect, no scratches or bruises, no rust, it's perfectly straight... why should it be faulty so suddenly?

[hrees]

Try the tonebar with a tonebar clip if you have any (there should be a least one or 2 on your top notes). This may give some more ring time. Also try changing the tine for the adjactent one, and put the suspected dead tine with the adjacent tonebar. This way you can eliminate the problem.

It's a weird one as I can't hear anything damping the tine (sometimes the hammer tips can come up too high if your tines are set low).

Dead tines in this area are very rare indeed. There is another lengthly 'dead tine' post on the list where the tine eventually turned out to be ok.

[Vibe75]

HOLY CRAP!!  That's what mine sounded like.  I've asked everyone on this site to help me out and I couldn't get it fixed.  I just had my whole piano adjusted and tuned and the tech said that he put a new tine in and a generator to get the sound out again.

I did the same things as you did and couldn't get the sound right.  So I would suggest that you replace the tine, grommets, springs and generator for it to be 100% fixed.  That's what the tech did to mine.  My piano sounds amazing now.  He also said that the generator worked but he put a new one in anyway.

I also think that for your key you need to replace just about everything to fix it.

[ZioKiller]

I forgot to say that I also tried to apply a tonebar clip but that didn't solve the problem.
I have a suspect... as I already said, the tonebars on my piano are a little rusty... can this be the cause?
Here you can see some photos of my piano, mostly taken the day the piano came in my home (a joyful day!!)

I repeat, all other notes sound good, so this could eliminate my suspect, but now I don't know whether it's the tine or the tonebar.

Tommorrow I'll try to swap tonebars and tines #55 and #54 to see if something changes.
So far, I've tried to swap the whole assembly #54 and #55 to see if the hammer and/or the pickup could interfere with this weird situation but they didn't.

Thanks for your help
Guido.

[ZioKiller]

He also said that the generator worked but he put a new one in anyway.

Wait a minute.. what you mean for "the generator"??
You really mean the whole thing? that is the the hammer with hammer tip, the damper felt, the damper strip, the pickup, the tine with tuning spring, the tonebar with grommets, screws and all the damn thing?? please be more explicit... I'm...  :shock:

[Vibe75]

I'm sorry, I ment the pickup.  He replaced the pickup generator.  I would get everything brand new because I think that what is causing the sound is a combination of many things in that key.  Like mine I tried everything and couldn't get that key to sound good so.......I would say to replace at least

1. The pickup
2. The tine
3. The gromments
4. The springs

Possiblely the dampener pad and arm.  That's only if the note doesn't stop ringing once you get it to ring out.

[hrees]

The piano looks great. Don't worry about the rust unless you're bothered by internal cosmetics: this has a negligible effect on the sound.

I wouldn'd touch the pickup, dampers or springs. These will have no bearing on the issue: to my ears your recording demonstrates the lack of any damper interference or pickup trouble. If you have damping problems the arm can be bent to adjust the clearance/tension. Replacement is a last resort.

As I said try swapping the tines with the tonebars and see if there's any difference. Obviously you will have to put them back in the original locations but it should let you know if the problem is with the tine or not.

If you can't get it right then get hold of another tone generator assembly for that note. They are free available on ebay USA. Just contact one of the many guys on there who break rhodes for parts. I've dealt with most of them and have never had problems getting stuff shipped to the UK.

[jim]

speaking of what you're speaking of hrees,
is a decent rhodes worth more in parts than as a whole??
it makes me sad that they're being wrecked when maybe they don't need to be.
my stage rhodes would've been wrecked if i hadn't bought it, and it plays fine.

[Vibe75]

Trust me, you need to replace those things because I've spent hours on that one key and I couldn't fix it.  The Rhodes tech that I took it to replaced those things and it works great now.  The key will not sound right if you don't replace the things i've said.  

I've bent the dampeners arms and adjusted everything else that could relate to the problem.  It still didn't help with the sound.

Just do it and you will be much happier.

Peace

[hrees]

In the USA I would imagine a rhodes is worth more in parts depending on how you sell them. Probably the same in the UK (where I am based) as well.

As for the replacing of springs/pickups/dampers to solve the problem on this post they will not make a blind bit of difference. An simple exchange of the tone generator assembly should solve the problem. Your tech probably used this as an excuse to bill you extra parts/time.

[ZioKiller]

I will replace the tine as soon as I can but I hope the tonebar is still good. Afaik, nobody makes them brand new anymore, so they're not easy to find.

Thank you for your support.

[Vibe75]

If you don't want to replace anything that's fine but at least replace the tine because it is rare that they go bad doesn't mean that they never go bad!

I had multiple problems with my one key and it was a combination of things.  But, with yours I would say the tine is bad.  Replace it.