Changing Hammertips for a smoother sound?

[psicolor]

I have a problem with keys 55 to 80 of my rhodes with 73 keys: When i strike these upper keys with the rhodes not plugged into an amp, it sounds like hitting an ambos with a metal hammer, while all other keys (8-54) sound much better - more like hitting an ambos with a rubber hammer. With the piano plugged into an amp the keys 55 - 80 are far too loud and have hurting transients (especially when i boost the upper mids to get a dyno-like sound). The problem can not be solved with the pickup distance: The upper pickups have their maximum distance to the tines, while the lower pickups run very hot (distance between pickup and tine is not really more than 1mm on keys 8-54).

According to Steve's Corner i discovered that the keys that sound too harsh all have shore 90 hammer tips or that ones with the wooden core!
So i'm planning to replace these hammer tips with softer ones, and would like to know if anybody has experience which this kind of modification.

[Max Brink]

Replacing the tips sounds like the right direction. I would change out the tips with the correct tips first and see if it is just that they are too warn down. Especially on the wooden core tips a small groove developing will cause the tone starts to go fast.

Hammer tips from Vintage Vibe and Grommets from Retro Linear is what I would prescribe on almost all keyboards that still has the originals.

[psicolor]

Update: I replaced one of the shore 90 hammer tip with a new shore 90 tip. The result sounded as shitty (excuse this speaking, but it is the truth) as before.
After that I replaced it with a softer tip, where i also cut my finger accidently. But this was really worth it, the fixed note sounds really good!
Tomorrow i'll try to order a bag of hammer tips to replace the other ones also.

Thank you Max for encouraging me with your comment to try replacing the tips! The clanky keys bugged me for the last two years, so now i'm very happy about finding the solution to the problem.

BTW: Are there any ideas how to remove the remains of the tip from the hammer without cutting your fingers? If not - no problem, i have ten fingers and enough time

[David Aubke]

I used to use a sanding drum on a Dremel.


You've got to be careful though. Now I just use a file.

[Max Brink]

Do you take all of the individual hammer arms out as you re-tip the hammers, David? That seems very labor intensive.

I leave the hammer in the piano and use a box cutter to cut them free. I always grab a brand new blade for my box cutter so that I can remove every last bit for a perfectly smooth surface... I've tried leaving the hammer octave strips mounted or unscrewing them to cut them out on my lap and I guess that just depends on the other services and whether I need to remove the octave combs.

[David Aubke]

I take everything apart.

It's tough to clean down inside the various corners and edges of the hammers while they're attached to their flanges.

As a hobbyist, I don't need to work within the constraints of customers' budgets.

[GetWithTheTines]

Chris from Vintage Vibe (Quadrapuss) mentioned plans to create some additional tips with different shores, but I don't think they have been developed yet or if they still have plans to do so.

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=6295.msg30866#msg30866

[goldphinga]

VV do appear to have some new tips. They are a slightly harder version of the yellows-


Look at this on eBay:

Fender Rhodes Piano Extra Firm "Yellow" Hammer Tips pack of 500

http://bit.ly/1bCGFb0

[The Real MC]

What amp are you using?

It may be a lot less labor to use a different amp, they have a larger impact on the tone.

[goldphinga]

Real MC has a good point. There's a famous story when Harold Rhodes went to visit a famous Rhodes player at his studio (think it might have been Herbie Hancock) and he couldn't believe how clanky the Rhodes sounded due to harder hammer tips. But the player said that once the Rhodes had been eq'd that it sounded great. Harder tips improve definition and allow you to have both a smooth softer tone but with clear attack transients at the same time.

[Ben Bove]

I also vaguely remember that story too about Harold and the guy with the harder tips... was it Michel Legrand?  I forget as well.

Anyhow, yes hammer tips have a direct affect on the attack sound, obviously.  I'm sure it's discussed elsewhere on the forum, but all vintage hammer tips if they are original, will have some degree of a harder attack - some times minimal, some times drastic depending on the tips.  The hardening / oxidation or whatever the correct term is of the surface of the rubber, makes for a harder initial attack because the rubber doesn't flex as much on impact.  The way I've confirmed this over the years is that if you cut the first layer of the hammer tip off, the same rubber tip with a different surface is exposed, and the attack gets much softer.  So in actuality, when the tips were new in 197X, the attack may have been softer (or more similar to new reproduction tips).  I had a very early 70s piano that was extremely clunky.  Cut the top of the hammer tips, and it's suddently a smooth piano.

The other thing I wanted to mention, is that yes changing hammer tips to a softer shore in the upper register will solve a problem to your liking.  I'm unsure as to the timeframe when they'll need to be replaced.  As the resistance is higher against the hammer strike on a shorter tine, the tips may wear out faster.  But, may not be a whole lot faster in the grand scheme of things.