Removing weight from inside a Rhodes

[goldphinga]

I'm very Interested in people's thoughts on where's best to remove weight from a 73 stage Rhodes. I already have a plastic cased model that weighs in at 99lbs (45kg) and a Mk2 Janus but I'd like to get that down to somewhere around 60lbs ish.

Question is where to make the weight savings?  As the case is already plastic abs I can't save there. So weight has to be lost from the inside. Now this Rhodes has the metal support blocks and action rail. I'm thinking cut sections out of each harp support, then drill largeish holes in the action rail, damper bar, remove the front and rear portions of the harp frame leaving just the sides, contour the harp wood to the tonebars, then cut sections out of the rear part of the keybed that supports the action rail too. Maybe re make the harp frame sides from a lighter metal.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. Been on my mind for a long time!!

[David Aubke]

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7306.0
Wait.. you've seen that one. You've been working on this for a while now.

I think you could try all of your ideas. The one I'm most concerned about is the damper bar. I've always imaged it handles a great deal of torsional stress and I'd be worried about weakening it.

As for everything else, I'm sure you understand that you're purchasing weight-savings at the cost of structural integrity. I have no idea where any of the thresholds you're approaching are but, in most cases you can approach them gradually.

[David Aubke]

After trimming the plywood rails down and removing the lengthwise harp supports, why not inlay some carbon fiber to help keep the wood straight?

disclosure: link to my day job

[goldphinga]

Thanks David for your insight. That carbon fibre is an interesting option that could work. I noticed on VV's piano they added support posts mid keyboard but that's not an option. What surprises me is that so few rhodesists have considered this. Everyone I've seen has removed actual keys and octaves but I need to retain the full 73 span. The harp in mine weighs 26lbs. Maybe I could lose 7 or 8 lbs with just Alu on the ends and cut down wood. So that would weigh about 18lbs. I next need to weigh the action rail and harp supports and look at how to remove weight there without losing structural integrity too much. Maybe I could lose another 10lbs there by drilling holes. So that's about 16 lbs off on the low side guesstimate. I dunno maybe more could be lost...

Then there's the keybed. I could cut sections from the rear part which runs under the harp support blocks and action rail. Maybe lose another 10 there. That would be a weight loss of around 26lbs. Which would be great! I'm surprised nobody has really done this. I know VV have done it with their pianos but I'm talking about modding existing metal framed pianos. I gig with my rhodes a lot and the weight is the main issue. The sound is as I want and these mods wouldn't really cost much to do. Any more insight/ideas most welcome!

[goldphinga]

Does anyone know if the old style wooden action rail and supports weighs less than the aluminium versions?

[David Aubke]

A 1973 I had weighed 133 lbs. A 1976 weighed 127 lbs.

Other than aluminum, I can't think of a significant difference between the two. The '73 had hybrid hammers while the '76 had all-plastic so, maybe that affects weight as well.

[David Aubke]

And, in case anyone has a wood support handy to weigh, I can tell you that a single aluminum support with a standard shim weighs 1.9 lbs.

[goldphinga]

Thanks again D, thats not a big difference then...
Ok, still on a mission here; this is what VV did to make their 73 lighter than a 73 Rhodes:

-drilled big holes in the wooden action rail
-used single spaced wooden action rail supports instead of one long piece of wood
-used slightly shorter tonebars on keys 1 to 8
-removed most of the wood from pickup and tonebar rail
-removed the steel harp frame and replaced it with an aluminium one that only supports each end
-cut the rear of the harp supports at an angle to remove more weight...
-cut away the back part of the damper release bar
-used single damper arms instead of modular
-removed the back part of the keybed

but they added two extra metal harp supports too...
and the single damper arms each have a screw which adds weight back in as well

So could a similar weight loss be achieved in an aluminium framed rhodes by:

- drilling a few holes in the action rail
- cutting a window in each alu harp support
- drilling holes in the damper bar or removing the back section
- cutting the back part of the wooden keybed into smaller blocks to support the action rail
- replacing the steel harp frame with an alu one that just supports each side like a Rhodes 54
- removing most of the wood from the harp

I guess it's not going to  be poss to cut down tonebars 1 to 8 and also i wonder does taking the wood away on the harp change the sound...Also i wonder if its essential to have those extra harp supports...i suppose it must be otherwise VV wouldnt have put them in.

Thoughts, thoughts, thoughts!!

[goldphinga]

Bump!