Which EP is the best practice replacement for an acoustic piano (keys touch)

[FatAlbertRotunda]

Hi, I'm a pianist/keyboard player, lucky to live 5mins from my highschoo, but eventually I will have to go to university and I am going to need an electric practice instrument, because I can't afford another piano and probably won't find an apartment where everybody will be cool with me practicing scales loudly 2+ hours per day
I have a Roland 300GX but am not happy with the non realistic touch (it has always a perfect tone, no matter, how you strike the keys) and am afraid that practicing it would ruin my technique (i have been practicing very wrongly for 7 years or so and hurt my arm and everything, so I really don't want to risk that sh*t again), so I was thinking maybe a fender rhodes has a more realistic touch, since it works partially mechanically. But on another forum I was suggested that a Wurlitzer is a better choice in my case, since it has a mechanism inside, that is closer to the one of the piano. What are your experiences?

[Max Brink]

Any well regulated one.

A Wurlitzer 140, 145 or 200 series (any 140B, 214, 206, etc....) may be best if you're looking for an instrument that is going to behave like an acoustic piano. These models have an action design that is very close to that of an acoustic piano. The 120 and 110-112 models' action has its own charm but would be less suitable if you are looking for something  true to a piano's action. Likewise, a Rhodes action can feel great but won't be perfectly analogous to playing an acoustic piano if that is your #1 criteria...

If you're looking for something that hasn't been professionally serviced within the past 5 years or so then I would suggest checking out multiple models before making your purchased. Unserviced instruments will be hit or miss...

[pianotuner steveo]

I agree with Max. A wurlitzer 140 or 200 series would be the closest. It was all I had when I was your age, and was perfectly happy until digital keyboards started to appear.

[Alan Lenhoff]

I agree that between a Rhodes and a Wurli, the Wurli feel is far more like an acoustic piano.  But for a practice instrument, why not try some other digital pianos, such as the Yamaha P-XX series? 

There are lots of lightly used ones available for $300-500, depending on the model (people buy them for their kids' short-lived piano lessons).  Some of them have a very nice feel (far more like an acoustic piano than my Wurli 200A) , they are compact, don't need an amp, can be used with headphones.  (And they come with a variety of voices, so if you get tired of playing  a grand piano, you can switch to an organ, harpsichord, EP,  etc.)

Don't forget that a nice Wurli can be fairly hard-to-find locally -- and pricey, too. (Typically $800+ for a decent, complete one in the U.S., and it will likely need some teching, too.)

Alan

[Ledbetter]

I second the Yamaha recommendation.  Look for one with an AWG (weighted) keyboard.  Plenty of good cheap CVPs are on the market.

[sean]

Every Uni with a music department will have practice rooms with acoustic pianos.  You might have to be a music major to get access to them.

It all depends on what kind of piano action you want.  Go to local music stores and try all the "hammer action weighted graded" actions available.  Don't make your decision quickly.  If you think you like a certain model, play the unit for a half hour, and then come back on another day and play it again for a long time.  Then decide.

I really like the action on the Yamahas, but it depends on what you want.  I don't think that a Rhodes or Wurly will make you feel like you are playing a real acoustic piano (grand nor upright nor drop-action spinet).  The Wurly has more action parts and is similar to a real piano action, but every Wurly I have owned or touched has a much much lighter action than every piano I have touched.

And the Rhodes and Wurlies are the opposite of portable.

My old Yamaha P80 has a very realistic piano feel, and the action is stiffer than I would prefer, but it really feels like a real piano.  (Really.)  The newer Yamaha's have a lighter touch, but still feel like an acoustic piano.  (There are also some pretty sad actions out there, like my Yamaha NP-30, so be careful about the exact model number you are auditioning.)

I don't think you will find a new electronic piano that feels great for less than $700.
If you have a huge budget, try the Yamaha P-155.  If not, find a model that you like at the store, and then hunt for used models.


Remember that we can give you tons and tons of advice, but none of us know exactly what is going to be perfect for you.  You have to look around and audition the instruments yourself.  Spend a few hours on the web comparing specs and prices, and a few hours in the music stores, and a few weeks deciding, and you will find what you need.

[FatAlbertRotunda]

Wow, thanks to all for the quick responses. Let's say that I do want a compromise between an EP and a practice instrument. If I invest into an electric grand, I'm probably going to use it only for practice, because I allready have my Roland for the bands. An EP would be useful for both.
Maybe I haven't emphasized enough that electric grand pianos usually don't give you the correct feedback about your tone. If it's really shitty, you usually don't hear that on a digital grand and that's exactly what I don't want when I practice

[Alan Lenhoff]

I think you'll find that the best reason to buy an EP is to enjoy it for what it is -- and you'll likely be disappointed in trying to use any of them as a stand-in to perfect your acoustic piano technique.  But, as Sean said, try some and decide for yourself.

One side thought:  I've owned some early '70s Rhodes pianos with their characteristically heavy action.  While  I didn't particularly like the feel of them (I prefer my lighter-feeling  1979 Stage Rhodes), I feel like they helped strengthen my fingers and encouraged me to play quite precisely. (Unlike my Hammond, which I think forgives/encourages sloppy fingerwork.) It was kind of like a gym for my fingers.  So, you might benefit from that.

Alan

[jean-papa]

I'd go with the yamaha p90 or p80, they have a good piano sound and a more realistic touch response than many other "light" keyboards, i had a p90 that i liked very much when i had to be far from my accoustic piano...

[Abraham]

Ep's are great instruments themselves, but I wouldn't recomend using those for practicing piano, there are great -and way cheaper, lighter, more reliable- electronic pianos designed for such purpose.

If money isn't a problem go get some kawai mp series. On the low budget there are some cheap korg pianos (sp-250) with an impressive touch for the price range.

Anyhow, make sure you *actually* test them properly before making a decission

[Max Brink]

every Wurly I have owned or touched has a much much lighter action than every piano I have touched.

I agree that this is usually true but if you have the piano regulated properly you can add a lot more "weight" to the keys and it will feel terrific. Particularly if the piano has a lot of lost motion this will be true since the keys' center of gravity is weighted in a way that causes the keys to "fall" forward as if they are being pressed down. Once regulated properly, a lot of perceived "weight" can be added to the keys and the feel can be much more pleasing.

--Personally I feel a much greater connection to an electric piano than any digital keyboard that I have ever played since they have percussive action and vibrating parts rather than a digital piano that can only mimmic the feel of the moving parts. For me that certain connection with my instrument can trump all other factors.


One more factor that might be worth considering is that the vintage EP will probably hold its value better than most digital keyboards.

[pianotuner steveo]

In general, yes the wurli had a lighter touch, but the actions are much closer design wise to an acoustic piano than a Rhodes or a digital are, unless you have a very expensive digital such as the current Yamahas that use an actual piano action inside.

Of all the wurlitzers, again, the 140/720 series actions ( NOT 700)  are the best. There s only a slight differece between them and the 200 series, but it s enough to feel a difference.

Also, if adding weights, to make it seem heavier, the weight needs to be placed directly behind the key button (balance rail pin). Adding weight further back towards the capstans makes it feel lighter, not heavier.

[sharan]

Hi,

Does noone else have problems with dynamics on a wurli?
I can't play so much diversity on my wurli than on a piano.
Thats the main-drawback for me practicing on my wurli instead of a piano.

bye,
Korbinian

[mvanmanen]

I mainly "practice" on my piano. The action on my wurli is really nice, better than many pianos, and I certainly prefer practicing on it to any digital piano for the reason's Max mentioned. But, I do notice my technique suffering if I spend too little time on my piano.

Going back to the opening post, I am not sure how practicing on a digital piano or electromechanical keyboard would lead to injury? I do see how playing only on an organ or clavinet keyboard may compromise your technique.

Michael

O/T: I would love to see a Wurlitzer timeline on Max's website that compares the changes in action, amps, etc.