Manzarek's "Riders" iso track

[sookwinder]

It's not a Rhodes, it is a Wurlitzer. 
Most likely the wooden framed one seen in a couple of the shots of their recording set up in the rehearsal room, where they all retreated to days after Rothchild told them they were playing bad cocktail music.

- The stage Rhodes (seen in the photos of the rehearsal room) does not have vibrato
- A SF Fender twin was not used as the vibrato sound on those amps is completely different and clicks come in every time you adjust the settings
- Bruce Botnick said he DI'd the keyboards for the LAW album  (most likely because if any of the keyboards where plugged into an amp it would bleed everywhere in that small rehearsal room)
- The overdrive/distortion you hear is solid state electronic distortion, exactly the same as that from the preamp in a wurli
- The vibrato sounds exactly like a wurli
- I do not know of any vibrato unit/pedal from 1971 that sounds like a Wurli vibrato

I have never been able to achieve the ROTS keyboard sound on my 73 Rhodes stage or any other Rhodes, my 200A Wurli gets it every time.

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck ....  you don't try and create scenarios where you attempt to prove it is a cat.

[pianotuner steveo]

No, it is a Rhodes. He only used a Wurlitzer on 2 or 3 tracks over the years. I can't think of any other tracks with Wurlitzers other than the tracks I mentioned above.

The vibrato may sound like Wurlitzer vibrato, but the piano is a felt hammer Rhodes. The pianos sound almost nothing alike

[sookwinder]

Ok ... I'll take the bait;
1. How do you explain the Wurlitzer tremolo sound used on ROTS?
The Rhodes used for the LA Woman sessions was a stage Rhodes and had no vibrato of any kind.
Bruce Botnick has stated in interviews that the keyboards were DI'd and as such were not put through amps, eliminating the option of using a trem circuit in the amp
2. Your statement (paraphrasing) that there are only a few tracks that wurlitzers were used in and ROTS is not one of them thus it is set in stone that the keyboard used on ROTS is not a Wurlitzer is a circular argument and holds no water. That is what we are discussing and the fact that you have said it isn't a Wurlitzer with out any evidence means nothing
3. What do you mean they sound nothing like each other? I own a 200A (mid 70s) and a 73 stage Rhodes. If I want to get the ROTS sound I just turn on the Wurlitzer and stick it into a valve preamp and adjust the level of overdrive on the preamp and level of vibrato on the Wurlitzer
I have never been able to get even close to the sound on the stage Rhodes
The action on the Rhodes is nothing like the Wurlitzer and to achieve the note placement and feel I can only manage that again with the Wurlitzer
4. The sound of the overdrive / distortion of the keyboard track for ROTS is EXACTLY like that of a Wurlitzer when hitting this keys too heavily with the volume set at 10. It is solid state preamp distortion with the attack of the note exactly how one would expect the Wurlitzer to sound. Again not something one would expect with a stage Rhodes. To achieve the solid state distortion sound on the note attack the stage Rhodes would have to be put into a trem/vibrato unit that reproduced the Wurlitzer vibrato then into a solid state preamp and then finally into a valve preamp if the recording desk.  I lay any odds that did not occur and using the logic of Occam's razor the logical conclusion is that a Wurlitzer was used

Then the question is was there a Wurlitzer available in the rehearsal room / studio set up and the answer is yes.

Lastly this question is directed to any and all who read this thread
Why is there so much debate as to what keyboard was used on ROTS?
The answer is because basically no one over the past 50 years has been able to achieve the sound heard on the recording when using the "accepted type of keyboard ", namely a stage Rhodes (as seen in all the photos from the session)
If one removes the pre conceived notion that is MUST BE a Rhodes and looks (listens to the musical evidence then the logical answer is that it is a Wurlitzer (especially considering the vibrato and solid state distortion that can easily be heard in the recordings)

[karnevil78]

On the final studio recording I can hear mainly the Rhodes. On the isolated track you can hear the unmistakable overtones of the tines. I have used an old Acoustic Corp head that had a scarily similar tremolo effect to the one on Riders. They might have used one of those as AC flooded them with these amps in 68.

With that said, they initially started working on Riders at Sunset Studios (before Paul Rothchild left) and the first demo was recorded with a Wurly (no tremolo though) and the Piano Bass. You can listen to it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUmqGggw0oc

They might have used some of these tracks in the final version and if that's the case there should be both a Wurly and a Rhodes in there. Ray said it himself that John Densmore sat in with Bruce Botnick to do the final editing and Ray couldn't even recognise his own solo in the end as it was dissected to small parts and put back together in a different order.

About the bass on the final version it's Jerry Scheff on his Fender Precision Bass, with Ray playing along the bass on the lower end of the 73.

[pianotuner steveo]

I'm sorry, but I tuned a piano for Ray Manzarek in 1999, and got to hang out with him. It IS a RHODES. We talked about it. He TOLD ME it was a Rhodes. That is my evidence!
Aside from the fact that it is very easy to tell the two instruments apart. Wurlitzers do not have the "chime" of a Rhodes. You can't duplicate the descending part on a Wurlitzer. There is not enough sustain. ( "The rain part" as Ray says)

I've never heard a Wurlitzer sound like a Rhodes, but have heard some Rhodes sound a bit like a Wurli, especially the early felt hammers or felt tips, which is what you are hearing. I have no explanation for the vibrato.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3deQXzV-qTk&t=1s

[pianotuner steveo]

He likely used a suitcase, probably his own. I know the photos show a stage, but that may have belonged to the studio.

[ummagumma]

For anyone who thinks otherwise, Ray says himself he used a Rhodes, check it out: