Re-Tipping questions

[Student Rhodes]

Hey guys,
I'm finally getting started re-tipping a '69 piano with hybrid, felt-tipped hammers, using the felt I custom ordered.  Got a few questions for you tech types:

I suspect if I try to get the tip off while the hammer is still screwed in, I'll snap the pivot pin.  So, it seems the best way to go about this is to remove each hammer and corresponding damper before attempting to cut off the old felt with a single edge razor.  Is this what you suggest? 

This older model doesn't have damper combs.  Instead, each key has its own individual damper screwed and glued in place. I figure it's easier to remove the damper with the hammer, rather than de-glue or cut the bridle strap from the metal damper arm. This means cutting through the brown glue that's dripped near all the damper mounting screws.  Was this stuff used to keep the dampers from shifting around?

If so, I'll have to use another glue to achieve the same purpose.  That means if I don't want it to look like a butcher job, I'll need to remove the old glue that remains on the damper arm. Razor seems like an option, but the glue is pretty tough and the pressure I'd need to get under it could distort the bends the damper arm.  Perhaps a solvent like acetone could take this stuff off without me bending/gouging the arm or slicing my finger off.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Ray

[Abraham]

I'll use an iron, go easy on temperature

[pianotuner steveo]

Removing the hammers will only waste time. Just be careful. I've never broken any of the pivot pins. There is more chance of breaking the flange from removing and reinstalling.

[camaro guy]

I'm contemplating doing the hammer tips on a 76 stage model but have been worried about how to get the old ones off without causing damage.  I confess I didn't understand using an "iron flat".  Does this mean a soldering iron something like that or a heated putty knife?  Sorry if this is an obvious question.

[David Aubke]

I'm contemplating doing the hammer tips on a 76 stage model but have been worried about how to get the old ones off without causing damage.

For the neoprene tips, I peel them sideways then clean up the residue with a file.
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7621.msg39102#msg39102

[camaro guy]

Dave - thanks for the info.  Do they come off if you grab them with pliers and pull side-ways while holding the plastic hammer?  I don't have a feel for how hard the originals are glued on, and I'm afraid to pull one off without having the new ones to put on in their place.  I also don't want to start yanking and wind up breaking a hammer.

[David Aubke]

I do use pliers except for the wood-core tips which seem to come off very easily.

I'd certainly support the hammer as close to the tip as possible when prying but I've never felt at risk of snapping the plastic. Most tear off leaving a little rubber on the hammer. If there's a bunch left on the hammer, I use an X-ACTO knife to trim it down but then I use the file for final cleaning. I don't trust myself with the knife alone.

[pianotuner steveo]

I agree with Dave's method 100%

Stay away from acetone ( melts most plastic) and avoid heat if you can, but go real easy if you must. A hair dryer on low helps soften glue. I have a hair dryer in my tool kit just for piano work. And an iron, but that is for acoustic pianos.

[camaro guy]

Great.  That's exactly what I need to know about how to get the old ones off.  One last question - is it worth it?  I realize that a complete rebuild means replacing the hammer tips, but will there be a real audible difference?  As a point of reference, I replaced the grommets and screws, and they made a huge difference in my piano's sound (much improved tone).  Will the hammer replacements give as much of an improvement as the grommets sound-wise?

[pianotuner steveo]

It depends on how hardened and worn your old tips are. The harder they are, the more improvement new tips will make. Grommets are a good first choice, however.

[David Ell]

Piano tuner steveo....How do you install the tips?  I am interested in how others go about it.

[pianotuner steveo]

With the 3M glue.

I've only done this a handful of times. Remember, I mainly work on acoustic pianos, (over 90% of what I do) then Wurlitzers, then Rhodes, and a few Yamaha CP70's and 80's over the years.

[David Ell]

I was looking for more of a procedure, not glue type. I was wondering if people realize there is more to it than mere replacement.

[pianotuner steveo]

Yes, people who have done it know there is more to it than just gluing parts on. Tip height, escapement, voicing, etc.

Rhodes work is a very small part of my business (which is why I am not listed as a Vendor) but I do this type of work for a living. For nearly 40 years now.

It has been about 8 years since I have done a set of Rhodes tips,however.

[David Ell]

Ok, thanks Stevo. I was hoping you could have provided some actual insight. You know, an interesting read, something to sink my teeth into. Perhaps something on tuning?

[pianotuner steveo]

Once again, it has been Years since I have done this. I do not remember every detail on how I did it.

Tuning has been covered in other threads.

[voltergeist]

I would not recommend removing bridle straps on that type of piano unless absolutely necessary.  High risk of damage.

I think the risk of inadvertent damage is lower removing the individual assemblies rather than trying to remove the tips with the hammers in place.  It can be done without damage, no doubt, but I still think the risk of f*king up is higher.  Slip...oops...&@#$%%$!!!!

[Student Rhodes]

I didn't remove the bridle straps or the assemblies.  I ended up just relying on my hands to hold the hammers steady while I went at them with a single edge razor blade.

With patience getting that blade in the right spot, I was able to use leverage to "pop" most of them off.   Then used a duller razor for scraping residual glue from the wooden heads. 

Now I need to make a jig to cut my strips into cubes.

Ray

[voltergeist]

Glad to hear it went ok.  Can you post photos of your finished hammers?  I haven't come across felt-tipped (non-teardrop) hammers, it would be interesting to see a restored set.

[Student Rhodes]

Yeah, I'm going to be taking lots of photos.
Not much to see now, but when it's done.
Ray

[voltergeist]

Funny thing, I picked up a student model (not a Jetsons, but an early version of the Walnut model) this weekend with felt hammer tips in needs of replacement.  Can you divulge details as to what felt you're using and where you got it?