Author Topic: First wurli, first post, first problem  (Read 8314 times)

Offline icemanaman

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First wurli, first post, first problem
« on: August 29, 2014, 07:29:54 AM »
Hi folks!
Aman from Norway here :)
I am brand new to the forum and the electric piano game!

I finally got my self a Wurlitzer 200A about 4 months ago, after a long time of dribling and searching on the web!
Not many of those in Norway, so I had to get it shipped from the states! Totally worth it!

My wurli is in quite good shape, however there is a couple of small issues I would like to get adress.
I did try to search the forum, but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for.
So I am hoping to get someone to point me in the right direction or help me out :)

First problem:
When playing, the action is quite fast and easy. No gooy or sluggish keys. When playing without depressing the sustain pedal, I am able to play the same key quite fast (3-4 times a second ish..) and every strike gives me a good sound.
However, when I depress the sustain pedal, and hit some of the keys at the same pace, every 3 or 4 note the key will not strike the reed properly, and the sound gets muted.. So to illustrate, if I was hitting a key with the sustain pedal pressed in at 3-5 times a second, here is kind of what it would be like:


tone tone tone tone mute tone mute tone tone mute mute tone tone tone mute tone tone.. you get the picture.

Is this a common fault and what is the remedy for this? Is it a fault at all??

Hope to get some help and get my Wurli playing without any issues! I am originally a guitar player, but I think I love the wurli more than any other instrument I have!

Thank you!

Aman

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2014, 11:39:05 AM »
I believe this is inherent in the design.  The hammer simply hits the reed on its upswing and sometimes dampens the note. The damper eliminates the possibility of hitting the reed on the upswing. It could also be the sustain pedal rod is out of adjustment, not lifting the dampers high enough, but I doubt it. It could also also be the let off adjustment being too high, or the key dip being to much, which can block the reed sometimes, but that doesn't sound like the issue.

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2014, 12:37:46 PM »
No, that is not it. The hammers are falling back down faster than the keys are returning (Ibelieve, of course I cant see it to be sure though)

The key bushings probably need easing. In extreme cases, key weights can be added to the rear of the keys so that the keys fall back down faster.

This is a common problem in all kinds of pianos, not just Wurli's, but a lot of acoustic pianos with light weight keys, such as spinets and some uprights.

Aways try the easiest thing first. Key easing is pretty easy and can be done with needle nose pliers in a pinch ( pun intended)

« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 08:30:54 PM by pianotuner steveo »
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 01:25:39 PM »
Do you mean that the fly has not completely checked off and returned due to the key being slow? Just curious, why do you think it is not a problem when the sustain pedal is not pressed? I am learning too.

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2014, 08:35:20 PM »
No, it's pretty much just sluggish key return due to light weight keys. As I just edited the above post, this is common in pianos with light weight keys, such as Wurli's and spinet pianos.

Sometimes, lubricating the balance rail pins ( some people incorrectly call these key pins) and also using an awl on the round hole on the bottom of the key can solve this problem.

I really do not think it is in the actual action, but again, without seeing it, I can not be 100% sure.

Having said that, "keys stick when using the sustain pedal" is a common complaint in new pianos and pianos with the basswood keys.
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2015, 05:57:12 AM »
Hi there guys!
So, first of all Thank you for replying to my questions! :)

So I just adjusted my wurli in the weekend.
I lubed all the action points, lubed all the key pins, eased the holes in the keys..

But my problem with random notes being "thumped" or muted stil persists..

I have to say that it seems like maybe cinnamonrolli may have been right:
The hammer simply hits the reed on its upswing and sometimes dampens the note. The damper eliminates the possibility of hitting the reed on the upswing.

I uploaded a video to dropbox of me playing a key fast and repeatedly.. But.. I have noticed that the tempo doesn´t really matter.. when striking the key once a second, the same problem can still occurr...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h7j5djbko9na408/File%2008.03.15%2C%2011.45.29.mov?dl=0

Not sure what I am supposed to do here...  :o

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2015, 10:27:51 AM »
I am interested in the answer too. What I said is what I thought most probable based on what i've seen. Maybe a strike line issue too? Ive swapped out similar hammers and got different results, I assume because no 2 hammers are exactly the same. You can take a hammer off without removing the reedbar. Takes a little finesse.

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2015, 02:48:14 PM »
It sounds like the hammer is letting off way too early. If I could see a slower motion strike, that could tell me more as long as the camera angle is good. When the key is pressed slowly, the hammer should fall away from the reed when it is around 1/8"  away (+/-a little) If it falls away a lot sooner, that is the problem.

But, if it ONLY happens when the sustain pedal is down, then I would check what I stated in the original posts regarding the keys not returning fast enough. Jiffy key weights would help if easing and lubricating does not.

1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2015, 02:01:13 AM »
Hi guys,

Thanks for helping with this!

I made another video (different key this time, but most of the keys act like this and are adjusted about the same).
I filmed from two different angles. Seems to me like the key is about 3 millimeters from the reed before it drops down again when played slowly.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2jkbix0dhyc5qx/Video%2008.03.15%2C%2022.17.57.mov?dl=0

As you mentioned, it does indeed act normally without the sustain pedal depressed. The problem only occurrs when i play with the sustain pedal depressed.
The thing I am not completely understanding is that the keys even mute/choke at slower tempos (see 0:30, maybe its not that slow??)..
So I don't understand how the key can use so long before it returns to default position. I mean, the keys don't feel sluggish, and they seem to return quite fast.. but perhaps like your sayind; not fast enough?

Could the strikeline be a part of the problem? If the hammer is hitting the reed too far out (where the vibrations are larger??)

Let me know if you need me to take any other movies or pictures! :)

Thank you so much both of you! :)

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2015, 08:45:22 AM »
Again, it is not a strike line issue. I strongly believe it is a combo of hammers letting off too early ( tool is sold on eBay), keys need easing, balance rail pins need cleaning and lubing, and if the problem still exists, key weights are needed at the backs of the keys.

Early letoff and slow key return are the two main problems. The keys return slower when the dampers are not used, because the weight of the dampers helps everything return to normal.

If you make another video, press the keys SLOWLY, do not keep hitting the key over and over. I want to see the hammer rise, then I want to see the gap between the hammer tip and reed JUST BEFORE it falls. This distance should be 1/8"-3/16". I don't know what that is in MM.
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2015, 04:22:53 AM »
Hi again Steveo,

Thanks again! I will make a video tonight hitting the keys slowly so you can see the hammers rise and be able to see the distance to the reed just before it drops.

So I will adjust all the hammers to drop at about 1/8"-3/16" (which is 3,2-4,8 millimeters) from the reed. That one I understand.

But what about "lost motion"? I saw the vintage vibe video about this and they said that lost motion in the key should be 1/32" (which is 0,8 millimeters). This seems A LOT to me.. My piano when I got it had basicly no lost motion. So I adjusted it to have a tiny bit.. But, how do I do this correctly? Measuring the gap between the top of the fly and the hammer is not doable. Do I just measure how much the key moves before the hammer starts moving (by measruing the key movement??).

Also, I checked ep-service.nl who are the vintagevibe distributor in europe. They sell key weight mod for wurlis. Each weight is 15 grams. Is this enough?? seems like very little weight.
I got a hold of a couple of weights which are 14,8 grams here at work. I'll try to temporarily tape them to the keys to see if this helps and make a video of this as well for comparison! :)

I'll upload later today!
Thanks again :)

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2015, 11:25:45 AM »
So, an update!

1. A movie of a key being triggered slowly. Gap is like you said 1/8 to 3/16. Lost motion is less 1/64 to 1/32.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9p9civiycaqbo7c/Video%2010.03.15%2C%2016.24.47.mov?dl=0

2. Then I added weight to the key. First I added 15 grams (ca. 0.5 oz). Then I added even more to a total of 20 grams. (I also tried a key different key with 29 grams just to check..not pictured)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n38616dbmplrjbf/Photo%2010.03.15%2C%2016.27.34.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/51f52mxnl5n9tks/Photo%2010.03.15%2C%2016.31.15.jpg?dl=0

3. The results: Did not work. I tried adjusting the hammer drop up and down, adjusted the lost motion up and down. Here is a video after added weight and adjustments back and forth. At the end of the video I drop the key up and down.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/giji1or6ef9ugkt/Video%2010.03.15%2C%2017.06.38.mov?dl=0

Soooo.. now what? Am I doing something wrong? Is there something else I should be checking now? Confused

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2015, 11:43:07 AM »
Great videos! Does every key act like that? I don't think I have actually sat down and tried to get every key to do that at some point. But I am very aware of this issue. I want to say some keys are not prone to it at all, making me think it was strikeline. To rule out strikeline, swap out a few hammers and see if you get the same results. The hammer isn't grooved right? As in heavily worn? Doesn't appear to be. I envision a sort-of-soft hammer can cause this issue too. Could it be double hitting and dampening on the 2nd hit? I would think you could hear that though. We need THIS camera for the job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_9vd4HWlVA

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2015, 12:05:52 PM »
Yeah I would say that all the keys act that way. Only the 10-14 uppermost keys seem less affected by this kind of problem. But then again, higher notes, and harder to hear clearly.

I took out the hammer. Doesnt seem to be VERY grooved. But I can feel a small groove. Maybe 0,5 millimeters.
Picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/utuq3ol6zguv8sn/Photo%2010.03.15%2C%2017.59.17.jpg?dl=0

I´ll try to swap it out with one of the higher keys.

Yeah, I´ve been suspecting double strike as well. But I can´t hear that happening.. My GF has an iphone6 with slowmo video on it! I´ll try filming with it and see if it can clarify anything ;)

Edit: yeah, no.. I tried quickly with the hammer of key 64. Didnt helpt..

Edit 2: WOW! Check this out.. I might have discovered something.. This is a different key, but it acts the same way. Some random hits are muted. Hammer drop distance is about the same.. Watch it all the way through. I stopped playing as soon as i heard a muted hit. That last hit might actually be a double hit!?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qbn5ju2c2o4s9p0/IMG_4067.MOV?dl=0
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 12:39:56 PM by icemanaman »

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2015, 05:47:50 PM »
I have rarely ever had to adjust lost motion in a Wurli EP. You may have possibly adjusted that incorrectly. It still looks like letoff is too early. There may possibly be a strike line issue that will affect the sound, but t shouldn't affect the touch. It's hard to tell at the angles I am seeing.

Those weights look like they are too far back- do they interfere with the action at all?

1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2015, 07:38:02 PM »
That slow motion suggests what I thought was going on. To me, the last hit looked and "sounded" dampened (or at least different).  If the hammer hits the reed in the right point of its oscillation (near the end of the upswing?), the reed will effectively cradle the hammer and then transfer energy back to the hammer (which is why it flung back so quickly in your video) leaving the reed dampened and traveling less in its oscillation.
This should be possible anywhere in the piano, depending on how hard you strike the key. I would think that the lower the note, the higher the chance of this because of the larger reed "swing." There must be a sweet spot range somewhere in the piano where this is most prominent. Whats the fix? Play hard notes and break reeds I guess. You would think changing the strikeline closer to the reed screw would lessen the chance of this occurrence, but also decrease that particular note's achievable volume. Interesting video and thank you. Great slow-mo too.

Thoughts?

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2015, 02:23:50 AM »
Hi again guys!
Thanks for sharing your thought on this.
Feeling lost on the matter here, I hope we can find some solution to solve this!

1. The piano was acting like this even before i tried adjusting the lost motion. And before I adjusted it, the piano had no lost motion.

2. I guess I could try adjusting the strikeline. BUT: It seems like (at least on the hammers I pulled out) that the hammers are adjusted as forward as possible. Meaning that I don't see how I could adjust them any closer to the reed screw. But maybe I'm wrong?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lztf8ooz7z9bjjn/Photo%2011.03.15%2C%2007.21.02.jpg?dl=0

3. I will adjust the first key to correct lost motion and hammer drop and film it from the side in slowmo. Then maybe it will be easier to see whats happening. I'll upload it in this post:

4. They weights are not interfering with the action. I checked that already.

5. Cinnamonrolli: What you are saying about the hammer being flung back so quickly makes sense.

6. Could it be that the harps are too high somehow?

7. Is there a rule of thumb where about the hammertip should hit the reed?

8. Could key height and key dip be the problem? I just read that if the key dip is off, it could affect a lot of things in the action.
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=8394.0

9. Can I file the hammer tips to remove the groove in them??
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 04:50:36 AM by icemanaman »

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2015, 04:28:01 PM »
NEVER file Wurlitzer hammer tips. This is a Big no no. that's something that is only done in acoustic piano hammers, and original felt Rhodes hammers that looked like acoustic hammers. The grooves have nothing to do with this. The reed bar could possibly be shimmed too high, it's worth checking to see if someone added non factory shims. Also, strike line is adjusted by sliding the reed bar forward or back, not moving hammers.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 03:37:54 PM by pianotuner steveo »
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2015, 02:00:09 AM »
I did take off the reed bar. There were 2-3 very thin shims there. I just removed those.
When re-installing the reed bar, I pushed it toward the back to make the hammers hit the reeds closer to the reed screw.
We'll see if that makes any difference.

I have no started adjusting each key to these specs:
-Key height (2.0")
-Key dip (0.375"-0.410")
-Lost motion (I chose to adjust this to less than the 0.030", but have some noticeable lost motion when looking at whip and hammerbutt)
-Blow distance (1.078")
-Hammer Let off (0.125")

So far I have adjusted the two bottom octaces. I haven't re-installed the dampers yet, and I try to observe the vibrating reed to hammer action.. I haven't tried with the speakers, but from what I can see up close and hear, the problem seems to persist here still.

To me.. It really still seems like the problem occurs when the hammer hits the reed at the "wrong" time, and most of the vibrating energy in the reed is transferred to the hammer, muting/choking that reed.
I don't see how the action regulation has anything to do with this..
And I don't understand how this problem can be solved? Can it be solved at all?
The only thing I can think of is adjusting the strike line so that the hammer hits the reed closer to the reedscrew, where the vibrations are less.. But then the ring time will decrease I guess..? That's just my theory though..

Please advise! :)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 08:26:15 AM by icemanaman »

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2015, 08:33:09 AM »
No, the reed bar appeared to be too far back before, not too far forward. Hitting closer to te screw can cause the "choked" sound, lack of sustain, etc.

Also, the plastic shims are insulators. The reed bar mounting screws can short out the + and - ( which has DC voltage) if the insulating spacers are removed!

I would put it back the way it was, but slightly pull the reed bar toward the front.

Also, if key dip is too shallow, it can cause the hammers to bounce or bobble, and make the action feel heavy. ( it doesn't actually change the touch weight, it just appears to)

If key dip is too shallow, the hammers can block against the reeds or even break them.

You really need to read the service manual and make adjustments in the correct order. If done out of order, you can go around and around in circles forever.
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2015, 10:14:07 PM »
I wonder if weak jack springs could cause this issue too.

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2015, 02:35:33 AM »
So what you both are saying is that the problem I am having is not just how it is with the wurlitzer?
It is an actual problem that can be solved by regulating the action or replacing parts?
And that it is possible to regulate a key so that it never mutes when playing it repeatedly and fast with the sustain pedal depressed?


1. I didn't remove the plastic spacers. I removed a couple of paper shims under the reed bars.

2. I pulled the reedbar towards the keys when screwing it down this time.

3. I trying to adjust the key dip to be between 0.375" and 0.410"

4. I am now adjusting in the order that the service manual describes. I'll be done with the bass harp soon. I will try to reinstall the amp and speakers then to check wheter it made any difference.

5. The jack springs don't seem weak. I have been onto that thought myself before.

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2015, 08:00:28 AM »
No, this is not just how it is with Wurlitzers. When working properly, they have a great action although a little on the light touch side for me.

Key dip is supposed to be 3/8"- 7/16" on ANY EP or acoustic piano. This is measured at the front of the key when you press down any white key, then measure the distance against it's neighbors that are at rest. If yours is too shallow, it can be a contributing factor to the issues.


Weak jack springs is very rare in a Wurlitzer.

Having to replace parts in any wooden piano action is pretty rare unless they are physically broken or completely worn out. Completely worn out is usually on pianos that are 75-100 years old.

1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2015, 08:12:24 AM »
Also, I want to stress once again that adjusting the letoff is the most critical adjustment in a Wurlitzer.
Are you sure it is set correctly?

Most Wurlitzers I encounter are letting off too early, which means the adjustment screw has to be turned clockwise. This screw is upside down, so you turn it from left to right if it is letting off too early.

1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2015, 10:40:47 AM »
Hi pianotuner steve,

Thanks for the info once again! :)

It's very helpfull to know that there is something that I can do about the problem. I've been feeling like it's a hopeless case lately.
But I will try to follow the manual very strictly now. Regulating one parameter of all the keys at a time. Starting with Key height.

A. I am still working on adjusting the key dip. I have started to adjust it, and I am adjusting it between 3/8" and 7/16.
Question: Are the black keys adjusted to the same specs? Just by measring how much the black keys dip compared to a white regulated key?

B. I am also adjusting the letoff. This I am adjusting to 1/8" from top of hammer to bottom of reed when hammer is at it's top.

C. The keys on my wurli have a general keyheight of 2.0". Some keys might be 1/32" - 1/64" above or below this. Is this a nokey starting point for key leveling? I don't need to adjust this by adding/removing hard paper shims between the balancing rail and the keybed?? (see page 6 of wurlitzer manual).

So looking in the manual, I will adjust the keys in the following order to the following specs if key height is good:

1. Key squaring.
Seems to be good. I WILL NOT ADJUST THIS.

2. Key leveling.
Will adjust this so that all keys are close to 2.0" as possible. Black keys I will adjust in accordance with manual.

3. Key spacing.
Seems to be good. I WILL NOT ADJUST THIS.

4. Striking point.
I WILL NOT ADJUST THIS AT THIS POINT.

5. Hammer blow distance.
I noticed that from key 15 or so, the Blow is 1/32" (approx 0.031") greater than the spec'd 1 5/64 (1.078").
Is this a problem? How would i be able to adjust this if so?? My wurli has a hammer rail on which the hammerbutts rest.

6. Lost motion.
I will adjust this to 1/32". My piano has little or no lost motion.

7. Let off.
Will adjust this so that hammers fall when 1/8" (0.125") from reed, on all keys.

8. Key dip.
Will adjust this so all dip on all keys are 3/8" - 7/16". Flat and sharp keys.

After this the manuel describes the damper servicing. I don't think this is the problem.

If i do all this, the problem should disappear. Right? If not, strike line still needs to be adjusted?
Can you please tell me if I can proceed with the above, and if it SHOULD solve the problem?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 10:44:07 AM by icemanaman »

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2015, 11:33:50 AM »
I have been pondering this issue for some time now. I've regulated keyboards fully and still see this issue. In fact, on my current 200A, I can get (almost) every key to react like yours do. (I push the damper arm lever down individually, not the sustain pedal). I'll try and make a video tonight. I had a thought that the fly was not returning fully before playing the note again, giving a dull or bad hit, but my mechanical engineering brain tells me that this dampening effect has to exist, and your video proved it. I'm going to go through my keyboard note by note and see if some react better than others, and maybe swap out some action parts to see if it makes a difference.

C. The keys on my wurli have a general keyheight of 2.0". Some keys might be 1/32" - 1/64" above or below this. Is this a nokey starting point for key leveling? I don't need to adjust this by adding/removing hard paper shims between the balancing rail and the keybed?? (see page 6 of wurlitzer manual).
Typically I don't think that needs to be messed with. I've yet to see a warped keyboard, but i'm sure they exist.



Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2015, 03:50:48 AM »
Thanks cinnamonrolli! Looking forward to it :)

When you say that you push the damper arm lever instead of pressing the pedal, is this because you can't replicate the problem simply by holding the sustain pedal in?

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2015, 11:29:39 AM »
When you say that you push the damper arm lever instead of pressing the pedal, is this because you can't replicate the problem simply by holding the sustain pedal in?

I do it to eliminate the extra "ghost" sounds from all the reeds being released of the pressure put on them by the damper arms (when you depress the damper pedal quickly and the amp is on).
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 11:31:47 AM by cinnamonrolli »

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2015, 02:49:54 PM »
Yes, the problem should be solved if all is done in the correct order. For dip on sharp keys, be sure the front of the black key is not "buried" under the neighboring white keys when pressed down.

Key height should be ok where it is. Yes, the hammers rest on a rail in this model, leave them where they are for now.

Strike line has nothing to do with these problems, but if the reed bar height is wrong, it can be a factor. You did say the hammer blow distance seems right now, so reed bar height sounds ok. It's ok for the bass to be slightly off fom the rest- it's not enough to matter as long as letoff is good.
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2015, 09:51:36 PM »
Here is my video.

I don't see any possible way to eliminate this. You can see on the dampened hit that the reed is in fact starting its descent before it is struck, removing energy and dampening the note.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 02:35:28 PM by cinnanon »