Author Topic: First wurli, first post, first problem  (Read 8581 times)

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2015, 01:02:21 AM »
Great video cinnamonrolli!  :)
This is the exact same behavior as my piano..
(Maybe the only way this wouldn't happen is if the hammer has more energy than the downswing of the reed?)

So, pianotuner steveo, are you still convinced that this problem can  be reduced or eliminated?
You have to let us in on the secret if you do!  ;) :)

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2015, 02:55:41 PM »
Cinnamonrolli, do you have to really "pound" on the keys to get them to sound? It sounds like you are really banging on them.

If so, letoff is too early.

1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2015, 05:22:07 PM »
On the video I wasn't hitting the key any harder than I should have been.  The internal speakers were facing away from the camera and it picked up some acoustic noise from the action, which is why it probably sounded like I was giving that note a beating. The letoff had been set to 1/8" on that one.

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2015, 11:51:22 AM »
Icemanaman, it looks like theres no fix for this, but to eliminate all other possibilities, make sure the lost motion is set to 1/32". Most hammer rail felts sag (as does the rest of the keyboard), reducing the lost motion to nothing. This will allow the whip to reset fully every time the key is released (theoretically the action should reset just before the key is fully released, allowing you to play subsequent notes without fully taking your finger off the key on each note). If it doesn't reset upon key release, then the key may be the slow part and the key bushings may need eased (or weights added). Make sure the key isn't rubbing an adjacent key too. I've seen this all too often and had to get an xacto knife and trim the felt at the back end of the key for clearance (or even sometimes the wood, even after spacing/leveling keys).

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2015, 02:58:21 AM »
cinnamonrolli, thanks for taking the time to do the experiments!
I'll look into the keys rubbing against adjacent keys. Thanks for the tip.
So, I'm just going to do the following and see how it ends up..

-Adjust key height to 2"
-Level keys
-Make sure no keys are rubbing against each other
-Adjust lost motion to 1/32"
-Adjust hammer let-off to 1/8"
-Adjust key dip to 3/8"-7/16"
-Maybe, add key weights

I have already done the following:
-Lubricated all action centres
-Eased keys
-Removed paper shims under reedbar

It's a shame if the problem doesn't decrease though. I play quite a bit of riffs that hit the same notes fast and frequently, resulting in muted notes.

Offline icemanaman

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2015, 07:11:27 AM »
Hi guys,

So I was adjusting my piano when I noticed that keys didnt return properly or fully to reset position. So I went ahead and fitted weights to them (acquired from ep-serivce.nl).

Anyways.. So I am in process of adjusting the lost motion now. How exactly do I adjust this evenly?
Can I measure how much a key dips before the hammer starts to move?

Till now I have just kind of "felt" how much the keys move before the the hammer starts to move, but this is very inaccurate.

Thanks!

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2015, 07:55:24 AM »
You are having this problem only when the sustain pedal is depressed?

« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 07:10:34 PM by pianotuner steveo »
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline cinnanon

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2015, 11:14:02 AM »
The key is supposed to move 1/32" before the hammer starts to move (which to me seems like a lot). You'll drive yourself nuts trying to make them all perfectly even. Start on a few and you'll get the feel and won't have to use a standard the rest of the way. The key is to get the whip assembly to reset. I find that some keys don't always repeat in their return from a keystroke, which would drive you nuts also. I guess that is caused by tight (or loose) key bushings.

Edit:  I guess with key weights your keys should be more likely to return to the same position every time.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 11:16:30 AM by cinnamonrolli »

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2015, 08:15:40 AM »
If the bushings are too tight, it could be part of the problem, but not if they are too loose. You can gently warm the whip bushings with a hair dryer, then lubricate them with Protek. DO NOT warm after applying, Protek is flammable.

None of my Wurlitzers have this problem.

1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 200A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Offline whitcombia

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2018, 08:41:39 AM »
i know this is an old thread, but for the record, i had this problem because the harp was not level.  with harp screws loose, make sure the harp is stable, ie does not rock back and forth, before tightening the screws down.  if not, put a front rail shim or 2 under the plastic washers until it's stable and all reeds sound good, then tighten 'er down.

Offline DocWurly

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2019, 10:49:07 PM »
Here is my video.

I don't see any possible way to eliminate this. You can see on the dampened hit that the reed is in fact starting its descent before it is struck, removing energy and dampening the note.

Whereza video?

Offline Electrickey

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Re: First wurli, first post, first problem
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2019, 02:36:18 AM »
I couldn't view any of the dropbox clips. They all 404'd.

Anyway, interesting thread and lots of ifs ands or buts technical mullings.

I decided to let a piano technician fiddle with the Wurli. Too many geometry specs for me to try and get right without years of piano experience.

When one issue gets fixed, another crops up. Did not want to deal with that and end up more problems than before.

As long as the middle of the keyboard gets that Wurli tone, without being expected to play like a Bosendorfer, I'm content.

Hope you come back with some takeaways for us landlubbers who did not sail the 7 seas in a sail boat.  :)