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Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model

Started by cinnanon, November 23, 2014, 11:14:23 PM

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cinnanon

I am attempting (in my spare time) to model the 200A piece by piece, mainly for fun and to see if I can do it. I will have models available for download and update this thread as I go. Modeled in SolidWorks. Maybe someone can print the parts on a 3D printer one day and have a totally plastic wurly! Each piece will be measured down to the thousandths of an inch, so should be pretty accurate. I made these two tonight.

cinnanon


cinnanon

building the base. legs aren't totally done yet.

pianotuner steveo

This is neat looking, but I guess I don't really understand what you are doing.

Is ths something you are making with a 3D printer?
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

cinnanon

#4
The pictures are renderings of the solid models I'm drawing in SolidWorks. The end result will be a scale 3d virtual model of the 200A complete with moving parts. I'll do some simulations of the action and also find what it takes to break the keyboard in half (for some reason I am curious ).  Useless stuff unless someone wants to build the whole thing from scratch, now they can. And mainly for fun.  The lid will fold back, keys will move and engage the action.  Sustain pedal will lift the dampers. I can model an amp and see if it will fit before ever designing it.  I'm going to use this to help me design a sustain pedal for my 112 too.

mvanmanen

This is a really neat project.
Thank you for sharing your progress.
Wurlitzer 200a
Wurlitzer 145
Fender Rhodes (1966, 1971, 1975)
Hohner Clavinet Pianet Duo
Hohner Clavinet D6s and C
Hohner Pianet T
Hohner Pianet N and Combo Pianet
Hammond B3

Dmacken1

This is pretty awesome! Keep us posted on the completion of the design. I know that Cornell University has a 3D printer. I have a few connections over there and would love to get this piece built and see how it sounds!

pianotuner steveo

#7
You can't build hammer and damper felt or reeds with a 3D printer.... ;)
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

cinnanon

Haha yea plastic reeds would break pretty easily i'm sure. Let alone they aren't even conductive!
I can tell you how much force is exerted on the reeds though. When I design the reeds I will model each one individually and see how much force it takes to break them. I just need to know the type of steel that was used on the reeds and I can find the properties on it.

I will keep this up to date.  I plan on getting a good bit done this weekend.

cinnanon


cinnanon


8675309

A strong recommendation would be to NOT post any of your solid files! Someone could easily go into business with what your doing here, its happened before on other forums where "DIY" recipes were posted and people with no morals just copy/paste and put the stuff into production leaving you stuck high and dry while they cash in. Good work though I tinker with solidworks from time to time its a difficult program to operate!

Nice work :)

cinnanon

I thought of that too. You are right.

pianotuner steveo

#13
I love the hammer pictures!

Cool!
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

cinnanon


David Aubke

I've modeled several parts from Rhodes pianos in SketchUp. I'd love to complete an entire piano but I don't think I can accomplish that in one lifetime. My motivation is partly about documentation but also to provide references for folks trying to repair or replace parts. Heck, if someone wanted to download my .skp files and start production, they're welcome to them. My only fear would be that they might later turn around and claim copyright over my work. You guys are going to be my prior-art witnesses should that day arrive.



SolidWorks does not appear to be software targeted to consumers. Is this something you do professionally? Can you give me a ballpark of how long it took you to create some of those models? I doubt it's something within my price range where SketchUp fits comfortably.
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

cinnanon

#16
Awesome sketch up! I've always wanted to try it out. Is it easy?

I use solidworks almost daily for work. It is a history based software, so you can go back and change anything and it will update all the following. It is mainly sketch driven extrusions and sweeps.  I draw each part individually piece by piece, make small assemblies of the dampers and hammers and such, then one finally assembly of the entire piano. I keep creating new parts and inserting them into the assembly. Can sketchup export parasolids (.x_t), step files (.stp), or .igs files?

If you define the material for each component, you'll get accurate properties like mass. You can create BOMs too. Also a great simulation program. I've been trying to get the action working correctly when I press a key, but we don't have the full seat of simulation so i have to make do. 

Oh an id say the knob took about 20 minutes or so to draw. I measure and sketch at the same time.

I think it would be cool to 3D print these knobs with glow-in-the-dark plastic.

PSS. Dassault systems, the owners of solidworks, released free CAD software called Draftsight. It is identical to autocad and totally free. Great 2D drafting software.

Student Rhodes

Quote from: David Aubke on March 01, 2015, 04:14:45 PM



I like that you modeled it on the late '71 to early '73 shell with the extra angle in the side panels. 

For my money, the pianos from this era, with the earlier Torringtons, have the most desirable definitive Rhodes sound.  They still have some of the the punch found in the Raymacs, but have a little more air to them for the pretty stuff.   Yet, they don't seem as "ting-a-ling" as the later Rhodes keys, which seemed to progressively sound thinner with each passing year. 

David Aubke

Quote from: cinnamonrolli on March 01, 2015, 10:03:33 PM
Awesome sketch up! I've always wanted to try it out. Is it easy?
Exceedingly. At least it's easy to learn to use but...
Quote from: cinnamonrolli on March 01, 2015, 10:03:33 PMOh an id say the knob took about 20 minutes or so to draw. I measure and sketch at the same time.
That knob would have taken me many hours to draw. Creating those curved surfaces and grooves is a very time-consuming process for me. There are built-in tools and also user-created extensions that provide shortcuts but they always end up causing issues that require sloppy fixes to clean up. I pretty much draw each line by hand so that I can maintain control. The only shortcuts I use are copy and paste.

Quote from: cinnamonrolli on March 01, 2015, 10:03:33 PMPSS. Dassault systems, the owners of solidworks, released free CAD software called Draftsight. It is identical to autocad and totally free. Great 2D drafting software.
My dad used to design retail store display fixtures and I have some experience with AutoCAD.

Quote from: Student Rhodes on March 02, 2015, 12:24:13 AMI like that you modeled it on the late '71 to early '73 shell with the extra angle in the side panels.
Many of the individual pieces are drawn from the same 1973 but several others are from different years.
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

cinnanon

I watched a few videos of sketchup and it looks great for quick sketching. Is it editable after you make a change, as in "un-doable?"

Here are the steps I took to create the knob. See picture below.
First I made a cyclinder by extruding a circle. Then a revolved extrusion of the knob head sketch. After that I drew the"V" for the ribbing cutouts, swept that profile along a path (blue line) to cutout the groove. And finally, did a circular pattern to copy that groove 160 times around the part, spaced evenly.

David Aubke

#20
Quote from: cinnamonrolli on March 02, 2015, 12:10:27 PMFirst I made a cyclinder by extruding a circle.
Same sorta thing in SketchUp.

Quote from: cinnamonrolli on March 02, 2015, 12:10:27 PMThen a revolved extrusion of the knob head sketch.
Don't know what that means (but I guess I can see from the image).

Quote from: cinnamonrolli on March 02, 2015, 12:10:27 PMAfter that I drew the"V" for the ribbing cutouts, swept that profile along a path (blue line) to cutout the groove.
Supposed to be able to do that in SketchUp - they call it the "Follow Me" tool - but I can never get it to work for me.

Quote from: cinnamonrolli on March 02, 2015, 12:10:27 PMAnd finally, did a circular pattern to copy that groove 160 times around the part, spaced evenly.
This sounds like trouble to me. I'd never be able to get that to work out exactly right. I make screw threads by building a single lap around the shaft then copying that piece until I have the length I want but beyond that, I got so tired of trying to finagle the special shape tools that I would just rather sit there and draw each line myself.
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

David Aubke

Quote from: cinnamonrolli on March 02, 2015, 12:10:27 PMIs it editable after you make a change, as in "un-doable?"
Well, SketchUp does have the standard Undo command but it does not maintain a history outside of volatile memory - i.e., you can't open an old file and start stepping back through changes.

Quote from: cinnamonrolli on March 01, 2015, 10:03:33 PMI use solidworks almost daily for work. It is a history based software, so you can go back and change anything and it will update all the following

I'm not certain I understand what this means. In SketchUp, I create "Components" for things like the hammers for which many duplicates are needed. If I change one instance of the Component, that change will be reflected in all other instances.
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

cinnanon

#22
pedal - kinda

jbennett

These are looking really great.

cinnanon


robert

great project! keep up the good work.
wurlitzer 200a
clavinet c
wurlitzer 206a
rhodes mk 1
hammond m3
korg arp odyssey


MIJ fender telecaster
MIM fender P bass (flats)
some drums, etc.

cinnanon


robert

wow could you use this model for an animation? I bet it would be very cool to demonstrate the action as part of a video explaining all about how the wurlitzer works. very detailed work you've done!
wurlitzer 200a
clavinet c
wurlitzer 206a
rhodes mk 1
hammond m3
korg arp odyssey


MIJ fender telecaster
MIM fender P bass (flats)
some drums, etc.

cinnanon

I can use this model for animation, but sadly we don't have the full seat of Solidworks simulation; we just have simple static loads. So I can tell you how much force would break the wurlitzer in half, but I can't tell you how hard you need to play a key to break a reed (yet!).

cinnanon


cinnanon

#30
Behold the (probably) first 3D printed Wurlitzer volume knob! Next will be the jewel light.

David Aubke

That looks really good.

Are you able to provide any information about how a fella like me might go about having a small run of widgets printed? Are there services? Or is 3D printing still not used for actual production runs, regardless of how small?

I've toyed with the idea of having a batch of simple Rhodes pickup mounts for DIY winding rigs made up.
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

Tim W

Looks great Cinnamon!

We actually had our prototype knobs 3D printed about 4 years ago before committing to purchasing injection mold tooling.
However, the resolution and finish of 3D at that time was not quite as nice as it is now (ours had fine lines in it, like it was printed by an old dot matrix printer (rememebr those?).  I still have the prototypes somewhere...

The harder part of that whole project was actually getting the springs and the inlays made.  You can get cheap, or you can get good.  Rarely both.

We did the same for the lamp jewels also, we have them in original orange and clear- and the clips that hold them in too!

3D printing services are available in many places now, just Google it!

cinnanon

Im sure there are services out there that would print them up for you, in larger quantities. You can print as many parts as you can fit on the table at once, it just takes longer. How many are you looking for?  I may be able to print you one.

cinnanon

#34
Quote from: Tim W on February 24, 2017, 10:40:48 AM
Looks great Cinnamon!

We actually had our prototype knobs 3D printed about 4 years ago before committing to purchasing injection mold tooling.
However, the resolution and finish of 3D at that time was not quite as nice as it is now (ours had fine lines in it, like it was printed by an old dot matrix printer (rememebr those?).  I still have the prototypes somewhere...

The harder part of that whole project was actually getting the springs and the inlays made.  You can get cheap, or you can get good.  Rarely both.

We did the same for the lamp jewels also, we have them in original orange and clear- and the clips that hold them in too!

3D printing services are available in many places now, just Google it!

Thanks Tim! But I guess you beat me to it! This was done on a Form Labs Form 2 printer at a resolution of .001" layers.  The finest it can go. Virtually no lines. I like this printer over the typical "3D hot glue gun" style printers. I really just did it to see how good it would look.  The clear looks cool too. They have glow-in-the-dark resin too.

cinnanon


Tehu

Great work!! I'm planning to 3D print knobs too, which material do you use?
Expecially for the fit with the pot pin?

Thanks
Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 88 1977, Wurlitzer 200a, Columbia Elepian 713, Yamaha CP60M, Hohner Clavinet D6, Baldwin CW-8-S, Roland VK9, Roland RS101, Roland SH1000, Teisco S100P, Yamaha SK15, Siel Orchestra 1, Sequential Six Ttak, Sequential Prophet 2002, Behringer VC340, Behringer MS101, MPC2000XL, Roland SBF325, Roland RE-201, Roland MPA100, Leslie 710

cinnanon

Bass reedbar partially complete.

robert

Looking great! I'm just imagining a world in which you could 3d print the majority of a wurlitzer in clear plastic now :)
wurlitzer 200a
clavinet c
wurlitzer 206a
rhodes mk 1
hammond m3
korg arp odyssey


MIJ fender telecaster
MIM fender P bass (flats)
some drums, etc.

pianotuner steveo

#39
You could sell that outer cable part that you made (the piece that goes on the outside of the pedal cable and touches the bottom of the piano)  you can not get this (original) part anywhere.... 206's did not have this part, so people who chop them need this.
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

Tim Hodges

I love seeing the progress on this, really impressive stuff.
Bristol Electric Piano
UK

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cinnanon

Quote from: pianotuner steveo on February 21, 2018, 07:31:21 AM
You could sell that outer cable part that you made (the piece that goes on the outside of the pedal cable and touches the bottom of the piano)  you can not get this part anywhere.... 206's did not have this part, so people who chop them need this.

Vintage vibe and Ken Rich actually make this part, and have been for some time now. The VV ones are cast like the originals and the Ken Rich ones look totally CNC machined.

pianotuner steveo

I meant that you can't buy originals anymore.

I don't ever look at those websites so I didn't know that reproductions were being made by others.


1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

pianotuner steveo

Ok, so I looked at the VV and Ken Rich sites, and those parts are $30 and $45 respectively, plus shipping.
You or someone else could make these with a 3D printer and sell them for less. I certainly wouldn't  pay $30-$45 plus shipping if I needed one- I'd make something first- and I'm pretty sure I did make one once out of an L bracket for a 120.
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

cinnanon

Quote from: pianotuner steveo on February 25, 2018, 04:08:21 PM
Ok, so I looked at the VV and Ken Rich sites, and those parts are $30 and $45 respectively, plus shipping.
You or someone else could make these with a 3D printer and sell them for less. I certainly wouldn't  pay $30-$45 plus shipping if I needed one- I'd make something first- and I'm pretty sure I did make one once out of an L bracket for a 120.

The printer I used prints plastic that is sort of brittle, so I wouldn't recommend using that material. There are other softer materials (even castable materials! hmmm...) that 3D printers can use.

I've use the VV ones and they work great. I've see all sorts of gizmos and gadgets that have been used in lieu of that piece but IMHO none work as well as the original or their replacements. Have yet to use the Ken Rich one; they look completely CNC machined.

Tonewheel

Hi Cinnamon,

Just caught this thread.

As a hobby, I have a CNC router, using ArtCam Insignia as the software. You could very easily do every wooden part in a Wurlitzer and Rhodes using this method. And with precision. You could also do key caps starting with the flat stock and have the CNC router do this. And you don't need to pay the heavy cost of ArtCam software as there are less expensive competitors.

Congratulations on your progress.

Dave
1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond 100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

elihu252

Are these models for download yet? I'm a 3D animator and would love to make some cool Wurly animations in my free time.

mickeyziggyk

Great stuff; do you do it by taking measurements from real pieces? Or is that just part of the process of rendering it virtually?


cinnanon

Yea I measure them with a CMM. Which models do you want? I may not want to give out certain ones 😜

mickeyziggyk

Wow, I never knew these machines existed. I thought you'd be using a compass and a ruler lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinate-measuring_machine

I was curious about the process you are following to achieve these results you have been sharing; thank you for the kind offer. I may take you up on that one day.