New photos and recordings of Leeds "E" Rhodes!!

Started by sunrunner, March 22, 2016, 04:04:02 PM

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sunrunner

At last, we can finally experience what this famous Fender Rhodes piano looks and sounds like today.  Thanks to my brother, Pcola_Rhodes for sharing this with me!

www.emodelrhodes.com
1973 Fender Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 88-key
1980 Rhodes Mark II Stage 73-key

sunrunner

And a huge thank you to the owner of this instrument!!!
1973 Fender Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 88-key
1980 Rhodes Mark II Stage 73-key

DynoCzarus Rex

Rhodes Mark I 73 key Suitcase Model (1978)
Fender Rhodes 88 key Stage Model (1973) with 1982 Dyno-My-Piano Pro EQ
Rhodie Preamp
KMD Flanger
Boss CE-2 (1982)
Amdek CHK-100 Chorus
MXR Phase 90 1974 Script Logo Reissue
MXR Phase 100 (1978)
Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 08
Korg MS-20 Mini
Yamaha MG10XU

pcola_rhodes

This is a dream come true for me. I've been obsessed with this Rhodes for years (see my previous posts) and have always wondered what it might sound like today. I was not disappointed!!! A million thanks to the owner for sharing it! I was thrilled to hear that it sounds identical to the original recordings!
1979 MK I Suitcase 73
1980 MK II Stage 73 w/Suitcase Preamp
Janus I Speaker
Fender Twin Reverb Reissue
BOSS CE-5
MXR Phase 90 (R28 modified)

vanceinatlance

Nice web site! Thanks for sharing the info and to it's owner for sharing more about it with us! I am hoping we can become more enlightened on the electronic modifications that were done on this instrument. I noticed a chorus effect on most of the audio examples and wonder if that is a chorus effects unit built into the piano base above the power supply? All of the connections and wires on the side make it look like it could have possibly been fitted with a flux capacitor?? I that the secret?!
Anyways, really cool to find out more about this instrument! Hope we can learn more about the electronics.

DynoCzarus Rex

#5
The chorus effect you're hearing is a Boss CE-3 that his piano's output is plugged into. The recordings of this piano from the late 70s and early 80s were typically done with the output going to a Rivera modded Boss CE-1.The Rivera modded Boss CE-1 allowed you to dial in the right amount of input volume so your tone would not distort. According to the producer, Jay Graydon, one-half of the signal was dry (without chorus) and the other half had the ce-1 chorus on it when the piano was used on his recordings/productions. The only major mod in regards to the preamp is that there is a major treble boost which brings out the bell tone from the late '71 Torrington tines that are voiced to bring out the overtones. The pictures that I have seen of the preamp look like Eddie Reynolds placed or replaced certain caps in the preamp and wired their signal to a flip switch to engage the treble boost or turn it off to have the stock Peterson eq according to Tim Warneck of Retrolinear. 
Rhodes Mark I 73 key Suitcase Model (1978)
Fender Rhodes 88 key Stage Model (1973) with 1982 Dyno-My-Piano Pro EQ
Rhodie Preamp
KMD Flanger
Boss CE-2 (1982)
Amdek CHK-100 Chorus
MXR Phase 90 1974 Script Logo Reissue
MXR Phase 100 (1978)
Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 08
Korg MS-20 Mini
Yamaha MG10XU

pnoboy

To be honest, I didn't like its sound--it was too thin and trebly, with no body.  The bass notes had no depth or richness.   ...just one person's opinion.

rhodesjuzz

I'm afraid I have to fully agree with pnoboy. Sorry but these things are always subjective....

--Roy
1976 Rhodes Suitcase 73 <effects loop || EHX Holy Grail Nano>
Line 6 midi keys
Scarbee Mark I, A-200 and Classic EP-88S

pcola_rhodes

Gwike, great info about the preamp mod and the CE-1 mod as well!  I read somewhere (I think the '84 article in Keyboard magazine) that Eddy Reynolds (?) also replaced the hammertips with a "harder" set.  I'm not sure if the E originally had the felt hammertips, as the harp date on the E indicates it was made the 39th week of 1971.
1979 MK I Suitcase 73
1980 MK II Stage 73 w/Suitcase Preamp
Janus I Speaker
Fender Twin Reverb Reissue
BOSS CE-5
MXR Phase 90 (R28 modified)

DynoCzarus Rex

#9
I spoke with the owner, George, about this and he said the hammer tips were stock neoprene. Eddie could have put harder wood core tips for the last few tines so this could have altered the sound some too according to Steve Woodyard who I also emailed. I wonder if one could get similar sounding eq results if they got a pre-CBS era Fender Rhodes and voiced the piano with a Dyno Preamp using only slight amounts treble boost and midrange cut eq? The one major difference I tend to hear when I compare the E model to early 70s Fender Rhodes with Dyno Preamps is that the Dyno users of the early 80s tended to cut out too much midrange so that's why the E model sounds thicker and bright at the same time. You don't just hear a really sparkly attack with little sustain like in the Dyno modded Fender Rhodes pianos. Both of these elements are working together. I've tried getting the owner to send me a picture the underside of the preamp so I could possibly have Tim Warneck of Retrolinear (who restored Donald Fagen's rhodes) reverse engineer the additional components that were soldered in by Eddie, but he's been pretty reluctant to send me anything. If Tim does crack the code I will make sure to post some schematics on here if he is ok with that.   
Rhodes Mark I 73 key Suitcase Model (1978)
Fender Rhodes 88 key Stage Model (1973) with 1982 Dyno-My-Piano Pro EQ
Rhodie Preamp
KMD Flanger
Boss CE-2 (1982)
Amdek CHK-100 Chorus
MXR Phase 90 1974 Script Logo Reissue
MXR Phase 100 (1978)
Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 08
Korg MS-20 Mini
Yamaha MG10XU

Ben Bove

#10
It's really great to see more up-close photos of the instrument!

What's very curious to me, is that Eddy Reynolds did in fact modify this instrument, however I don't see his classic blue floater board replacing the EQ section, so I'm wondering where the EQ modification is?  The preamp appears to be nearly stock, save for a few Mallorys that were replaced.  The preamp cover fits over the preamp board normally, so there wouldn't be anything on the underside of the preamp, otherwise it wouldn't be able to close (there's pretty low clearance there).  That part is a mystery to me, in fact where the switch goes to is a mystery. 

It has a 5-pin preamp and power amp connector similar to the later Janus-style Rhodes, so I'm wondering if there's something attached to the 5th pin by modification or if it's just a connection preference?  Besides the bottom cabinet being from a later model Rhodes about '75 or '76, they definitely modified the piano after 1977 - the terminology "Preamp Out" and "Power Amp In" are the exact words used on the Janus amp design, so if Eddy did the power amp, he was basing it off the Janus model ins and outs.



I can't make it out exactly, but it appears the wood core hammer tip transition on the "Model E" is around C#, so that may be a couple notes lower than standard but not by much if so.  I'd love to hear direct piano samples from George without any effects to hear a pure sound.  A great piece of history.
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vanceinatlance

Thanks for the great info Gwike! I have now noticed the pedal placed on the floor in a couple of pictures on his site. I am mostly curious about all of the cables coming out of and going into the side of the suitcase. What is the device mounted in the suitcase box above the power supply with balanced plugs on either side? The preamp mods are also of interest as well, but there seems to be a large amount of business going on besides just connecting the suitcase to the preamp. I now understand the send and receive cables to and from the boss chorus. Are the extra balanced plugs just for output to recording equipment? One for clean and one for the ce-1? Just trying to make sense out of all of the connections on the side...
Just read Ben's post as I was about to post. Also some great info and a insight about the suitcase base. I second the thought that a clean recording without effects would be nice to hear.

Phillip

Thank you for this amazing website and the music.

LDS

Quote from: pnoboy on March 23, 2016, 06:30:45 AM
To be honest, I didn't like its sound--it was too thin and trebly, with no body.  The bass notes had no depth or richness.   ...just one person's opinion.


Yeah, it isn't my cup of tea either. I like my tone a little more... swampy for a lack of a better term.

I really love the story about the Leeds E Rhodes though.

pcola_rhodes

Ben, great observation about the 5-pin cable...I too noticed that a few months ago while looking at the photos of the E on the supersite.  I've not seen any other preamps modified by Eddy Reynolds (except the Victor Feldman model on www.fenderrhodesla.com), and I'm very curious to know about the classic blue floater board...not familiar with it.  Makes sense to me that the preamp might just have a treble boost activated by toggle switch, as it does seem to have more midrange than some Dyno models I have heard.  I too would love to hear a recording without the preamp modification.
1979 MK I Suitcase 73
1980 MK II Stage 73 w/Suitcase Preamp
Janus I Speaker
Fender Twin Reverb Reissue
BOSS CE-5
MXR Phase 90 (R28 modified)

Ben Bove

Thanks for the reference to Nir's pictures - yes he clearly has the Eddy Reynolds blue floater board pictured:



This is the EQ modification I'm used to seeing on Eddy Reynolds mods, so that's why I was curious looking for it on the E.
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sunrunner

#16
I've always been very curious about the modification... This is just my opinion, but to me, it sounds like more than simply a treble boost. It sounds more like the effect produced by the Harmonic Clarifier, or even the Sonic Maximizer (by BBE). The harmonics give it a natural distortion-like sound on the lower notes, and definitely a pronounced high frequency harmonic boost on the higher notes.

I think the stereo chorus also contributes to it's sound a lot. I don't believe I've EVER heard the "E" without the boss chorus. Like others, I'm very curious to hear it with no chorus, and through the stock preamp - no effects at all. Hell I'd like to hear it with vibrato, which I don't believe I've ever heard on any recordings. I find it quite amazing that it still sounds exactly like the records. I've wanted to see and hear how it sounds these days, so the site is a real treat for me.

Ben, it would be great to feature this Rhodes in a video on your Fender Rhodes Story YouTube page! 
1973 Fender Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 88-key
1980 Rhodes Mark II Stage 73-key

pianotuner steveo

Can anyone say for sure if this is the piano used on "Just the Two of Us" by Grover Washington and Bill Withers? I always found that to be a really interesting sounding Rhodes.

As far as it sounding too trebly, yes, by itself maybe, but with a band and a bass, it could sound amazing. When I was in a band in '81-'83 the leader kept telling me to let the bass player play the bass notes because the bass was too overwhelming with the Rhodes and the bass guitar together.

That may have been part of the reason for this mod?
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

pcola_rhodes

I have listened to some songs that I am quite sure have the E, one in particular is "Heartlight" by Neil Diamond (I think David Foster is the player).  I've also heard some more obscure west coast AOR songs that I am quite sure is the E (Eric Tagg, Bugatti & Musker).  Also a song by George Benson called "Being With You" (I think Jay Graydon produced this).  Another one is "For You" by Dionne Warwick, also produced by Jay Graydon.  Mostly songs from the early '80s.  As far as I know, the earliest recording I've heard of the E is Al Jarreau's "This Time" from 1980, but it could have been on some late '70s recordings too.
1979 MK I Suitcase 73
1980 MK II Stage 73 w/Suitcase Preamp
Janus I Speaker
Fender Twin Reverb Reissue
BOSS CE-5
MXR Phase 90 (R28 modified)

The Real MC

My sparkletop with replacement plaster/wood hammer set going into a Countryman Type 10 DI right off the harp sounds a lot like the model E.

I tried the same DI setup with a 1976 Rhodes and it was too dull sounding.

Something about the pickups from the era of sparkletop and model E - they can get both the bark and bell at the same time, totally controllable with dynamic playing. 

If you look at the namerail of the model E, the accessory jacks and faceplate are not original.  Early suitcase pianos did not have accessory jacks.  Look at later suitcase peterson pianos and the faceplate is not as close to left edge of the namerail.  This model E was one of the early ones without accessory jacks.

Also look at the photo showing the hood open at the left side of the harp.  The bass tines can be seen.  They have the large tuning springs which were used on Raymac tines.  The model E has Raymacs like the sparkletops.

Dan Belcher

Quote from: pianotuner steveo on March 25, 2016, 08:45:42 AM
Can anyone say for sure if this is the piano used on "Just the Two of Us" by Grover Washington and Bill Withers? I always found that to be a really interesting sounding Rhodes.

As far as it sounding too trebly, yes, by itself maybe, but with a band and a bass, it could sound amazing. When I was in a band in '81-'83 the leader kept telling me to let the bass player play the bass notes because the bass was too overwhelming with the Rhodes and the bass guitar together.

That may have been part of the reason for this mod?
When mixing sound, the lows and low-mids can very easily become muddy and overwhelming when you have multiple instruments fighting for sonic space. When I'm mixing audio, I almost always use EQ to remove some lower frequencies from every instrument except the bass and the kick drum. When you listen to the entire mix, the instruments sound balanced and the overall sound is rich and full. However, if you solo out any of the instruments, they tend to sound fairly thin. This is especially true of the Rhodes, since it can get very bass heavy and boomy due to its nature.
Proud owner,
1978 Rhodes Mark I Stage 73

The Real MC

#21
Quote from: Dan Belcher on March 25, 2016, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: pianotuner steveo on March 25, 2016, 08:45:42 AM
Can anyone say for sure if this is the piano used on "Just the Two of Us" by Grover Washington and Bill Withers? I always found that to be a really interesting sounding Rhodes.

As far as it sounding too trebly, yes, by itself maybe, but with a band and a bass, it could sound amazing. When I was in a band in '81-'83 the leader kept telling me to let the bass player play the bass notes because the bass was too overwhelming with the Rhodes and the bass guitar together.

That may have been part of the reason for this mod?

When mixing sound, the lows and low-mids can very easily become muddy and overwhelming when you have multiple instruments fighting for sonic space. When I'm mixing audio, I almost always use EQ to remove some lower frequencies from every instrument except the bass and the kick drum. When you listen to the entire mix, the instruments sound balanced and the overall sound is rich and full. However, if you solo out any of the instruments, they tend to sound fairly thin. This is especially true of the Rhodes, since it can get very bass heavy and boomy due to its nature.

Precisely the approach I take, and I have a strong suspicion that the Eddy Reynolds preamp mod is not a treble boost but a mid/bass cut.

pianotuner steveo

#22
Yes, when mixing recordings I do the same. ( with EQ)  I meant when we were playing live the band leader wanted me to not to play any bass notes.
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

DynoCzarus Rex

#23
I think one of the earliest recordings to have the E model was from the Steve Kipner album "Knock The Walls Down" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY6dqoCLBnk which was produced by Jay Graydon in 1979. Also to answer the question about the Grover Washington Jr. album "Winelight" that was not the E model. In 1981 Richard Tee was playing a Mark II suitcase 73 Rhodes. He may have had some hammer tip mods or some revoicing done to make it sound clankier/brighter but those are definitely Schaller tines not Torrington tines like on the E model.
Rhodes Mark I 73 key Suitcase Model (1978)
Fender Rhodes 88 key Stage Model (1973) with 1982 Dyno-My-Piano Pro EQ
Rhodie Preamp
KMD Flanger
Boss CE-2 (1982)
Amdek CHK-100 Chorus
MXR Phase 90 1974 Script Logo Reissue
MXR Phase 100 (1978)
Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 08
Korg MS-20 Mini
Yamaha MG10XU

DynoCzarus Rex

Also George Benson's song "Being With You" from his 1983 album "In Your Eyes" features Robbie Buchanan on his 1970 73 key suitcase with the Dyno My Pro Piano amp. It does sound similar to the E model but the sustain of the Raymac tines is definitely shorter than the Torringtons in the E model.
Rhodes Mark I 73 key Suitcase Model (1978)
Fender Rhodes 88 key Stage Model (1973) with 1982 Dyno-My-Piano Pro EQ
Rhodie Preamp
KMD Flanger
Boss CE-2 (1982)
Amdek CHK-100 Chorus
MXR Phase 90 1974 Script Logo Reissue
MXR Phase 100 (1978)
Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 08
Korg MS-20 Mini
Yamaha MG10XU

The Real MC

Quote from: gwike on March 26, 2016, 05:32:35 PM
Also George Benson's song "Being With You" from his 1983 album "In Your Eyes" features Robbie Buchanan on his 1970 73 key suitcase with the Dyno My Pro Piano amp. It does sound similar to the E model

The model E was the inspiration for the Dyno My Pianos.  The goal of their modifications was to emulate the sound of the model E.

Quotebut the sustain of the Raymac tines is definitely shorter than the Torringtons in the E model.

I have owned an early 70s and mid 70s Rhodes with Torringtons in addition to my sparkletop with Raymacs and there is no difference in sustain between the two makes of tines.

pnoboy

There's lots of mysticism surrounding Rhodes preamp modifications.  From the Eddie Reynold mod, to the Dyno My Piano preamp, to the Harmonic Clarifier, along with others whose name slip my memory.  As far as I can tell, they all just offer frequency-response modifications.  If any of these products do more than that I'd love to know.  If not, there's nothing they do that a good graphic equalizer can't do.  A parametric equalizer might be especially well suited to the task.  Musicians are always searching for the holy grail of tone, and lots of speculation as how to get it from a Rhodes abound.  As far as I can tell by my own experience, hammer tips, pickup placement, frequency response of the electronic signal chain, and the speaker used to put out the sound are the really important ones.

pcola_rhodes

Pnoboy - great point, couldn't have said it better...

Back to Leeds Rental Rhodes and the E - I read in an article by Keyboard Magazine that an Andy Leeds owned an 88 key flat top suitcase was used on "Thriller" and "Off The Wall" (not sure which model this was).  Obviously doesn't sound like a description of the E, and the Rhodes on these albums does have a different (but very desirable) sound.  Anyone have any insight into this model or any other Leeds owned Rhodes?
1979 MK I Suitcase 73
1980 MK II Stage 73 w/Suitcase Preamp
Janus I Speaker
Fender Twin Reverb Reissue
BOSS CE-5
MXR Phase 90 (R28 modified)

DynoCzarus Rex

I think some of the Rhodes Leeds Rentals owned tended to be from the golden era of Fender Rhodes production (i.e. '71-'76). Perhaps this was a preference on his part, but the 88 key Flattop sounds like a golden era Rhodes with an Eddie Reynolds modded preamp-- probably by this time he was using the floating blue perf boards in the Peterson amps. I know Eddie Reynolds put a flattop with a copper shielding kit on Victor Feldman's 1974 Rhodes as shown in this link: http://www.fenderrhodesla.com/74-eddie-reynolds-suitcase.html. I suspect there's probably some midrange cut going on in the "Thriller" Rhodes and would also say it's going through a Rivera modded CE-1. The CE-1 tone is so unmistakeably thicker than the CE-2 that was typically installed in many Dyno modded Rhodes. As far as some of the other models that Leeds owned I know that letter A was for sale a few years ago. I think it was a pre-1973 stage model with later era hinges and latches. Would be interesting to know if it had Eddie Reynolds' active electronics in it. 
Rhodes Mark I 73 key Suitcase Model (1978)
Fender Rhodes 88 key Stage Model (1973) with 1982 Dyno-My-Piano Pro EQ
Rhodie Preamp
KMD Flanger
Boss CE-2 (1982)
Amdek CHK-100 Chorus
MXR Phase 90 1974 Script Logo Reissue
MXR Phase 100 (1978)
Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 08
Korg MS-20 Mini
Yamaha MG10XU

tomogradymusic

Just to echo what some have already said here, I'm not into this sound - I don't understand the fuss about the Leeds 'E' Rhodes - to my ears it's weedy / thin but then again, my threshold for chorused Rhodes is lower than many other people's.
Surely there should be way more fuss about the suitcase Rhodes that Herbie used during the Headhunters era - and also during the Secrets / Sunlight era; *that* Rhodes defines the perfect recorded sound of the instrument, in my opinion.
*New Video*: Resolution 88 - 'Caughtus Interruptus' (feat. suitcase Rhodes piano): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUD7K9Ysh4E
1975 Rhodes Suitcase mk1 88 (ser 60341)
1976 Rhodes Suitcase mk1 88 (ser 61087)
http://www.youtube.com/user/tomogradymusic
http://www.facebook.com/Resolution88
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Dan Belcher

Just a heads up, if you want to hear essentially the dry sound of these recordings with the chorus, listen to only the left or only the right channel. It's a stereo chorus effect, so that will basically negate it.

My personal opinion: I think it has a great tone for what it is -- a bright Rhodes tone. I tend to think of dark and brights Rhodes tones as being like single coil vs humbucker pickups in guitars. Two totally different sounds, but both are equally "good" to me and just have their own places and fit in different songs and styles of music. A brighter Rhodes with a lot of the low-mid frequencies stripped away will fit great in a ballad, while a meaty, growling tone will be right at home in a fusion or funk record. This particular Rhodes is one of the best I've ever heard at creating a bright tone without being shrill or thin. It still has body and character, even if it's certainly thinner than say Herbie Hancock's sound.
Proud owner,
1978 Rhodes Mark I Stage 73

DynoCzarus Rex

Even though Herbie started off with a thicker Rhodes tone, his 1982 album "Lite Me Up" marks a pretty dramatic tonal transition with brighter overtones, less low midrange, and some stereo chorus. The track "Give it All Your Heart" is a great example of this change https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9MWbYfP-qo. I wonder if he was influenced by the sound of the E model by the time he worked with Rod Temperton on this release.   
Rhodes Mark I 73 key Suitcase Model (1978)
Fender Rhodes 88 key Stage Model (1973) with 1982 Dyno-My-Piano Pro EQ
Rhodie Preamp
KMD Flanger
Boss CE-2 (1982)
Amdek CHK-100 Chorus
MXR Phase 90 1974 Script Logo Reissue
MXR Phase 100 (1978)
Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 08
Korg MS-20 Mini
Yamaha MG10XU

Ben Bove

I'd agree with Dan on that one as well, it really is a question of taste and what kind of record they were making.  Jay Graydon doing pop records on Al Jarreau and the like, they're looking for something that hits - bright and cuts through, rather than a mellow, laid-back sound. 

Headhunters would have sounded way different on the E Rhodes.  Pop records may not have sounded all that great with the Headhunters Rhodes.  So I feel it's a bit of give and take on application.  I have a '71 suitcase similar to the E (which is why I bought it) and I can definitely hear the similarities, and it's a great sounding Rhodes with a unique character.  What I can say is that with the treble all the way up, it actually dwarfs the bass, unless you back off some treble or raise the bass as well. 

I'm wondering if the E actually has a preamp EQ mod.  It can definitely be achieved with a graphic / parametric EQ - I just believe most people don't know how to dial in the sound they want... it takes an understanding of the Rhodes sound and what frequencies should be amplified or cut.  So if a preamp supposedly gives an improved default choice, I think people gravitate to that.
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JanneI

Speaking of Boss CE-1, I recently made a clone using all original parts. Here's a short comparison video (clone vs original) with jupiter-6 and rhodes markI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZSkfZO0OzY

The "stereo" in CE-1 is actually left dry - right wet, when using both outputs. In mono it's mixed without a potentiometer to change the dry-wet ratio. In my opinion CE-1 and CE-2 sound totally different with rhodes and the winner is clearly CE-1. Add BBE sonic maximazer with the CE-1 and you're half way there even with poorly adjusted rhodes.


sunrunner

Ben,
Does your 1971 suitcase have Raymacs or Torringtons?  I noticed that on this thread, there are varying opinions on which type of tines were on the E Rhodes...
1973 Fender Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 88-key
1980 Rhodes Mark II Stage 73-key

vanceinatlance

I wrote to George asking about the electronic mods and  he was kind enough to take the time to try and explain the preamp mod to me. I'll quote what he said (hopefully he dosen't mind):

"all that Eddy did was bypass the volume control and tone controls and put in two electrolytic capacitors and a resistor to: a) boost the EQ in one area of the frequency spectrum and b) provide a high pass filter to control the bottom end"

He explained that he believed that it was a mod that was designed to be used in a studio to have a standard reference when recording. Flipping the switch bypassed the controls and gave a preset eq.  The key to the E sound he said is truly the piano its self. He said that he plugs directly off the harp with different amp setups and it retains its quality.
I also believe there is a special feel and sound to some pianos that are out there. Each group of model years have desirable characteristics to different people looking for a specific sound and feel. I'm sure I'm not alone in regretting selling or not buying a certain piano because I later found I just can't get even one of the same year to sound and feel quite the same....

Groove4Hire

#36
The difference between the E-Rhodes and a well set-up Dyno Rhodes isn't that big really... As gwike has pointed out, Robbie Buchanan used his own 1970 Dyno modified suitcase on a lot of recordings and told me personally that when Jay Graydon heard his piano he usually went with Robbie's piano. "Being with You" is played on his Dyno suitcase... If you listen to "Not Like This" you'll hear that in the recording the upper note has a glassy attack to it that the E-Rhodes lack... And Robbie told me he played his Dyno on "I Will Be Here For You"... I have tried several early (1970-1973) pianos through a Dyno preamp and the tone is there. The difference is how well set up the piano is... The E-Rhodes is indeed a very good specimen from the golden age imo :)
Jon
Rhodes-tech, www.vintagebua.no, Norway

Ben Bove

Thanks Vance, that helps a lot.

I can also contribute in saying the sound of my '71 is a cool piano in itself.  It's hard to comment on the name of the vendor for the tines as I still have conflicting info even from the CBS engineers, but its definitely an earlier tine design.  Either a late Raymac or early Torrington design (it's possible tine design changed within a vendor, so Torrington's first run could be different than ones they refined 5 years later).  That information is pretty much lost unfortunately.

Agreed about Dyno as well from Jon.
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goldphinga

My '72 suitcase sounds very much like the E Rhodes- its got some magic, everyone that hears it seems to agree!

DynoCzarus Rex

Speaking of choruses, if anyone is in the market for one check out the Amdek CHK-100. Just bought one off of Reverb and it sounds phenomenal--very thick chorusing. It's essentially a pseudo stereo CE-2 that was made when Roland was getting bought out by Boss. It's also a little cheaper than a CE-2 as well at only $100.
Rhodes Mark I 73 key Suitcase Model (1978)
Fender Rhodes 88 key Stage Model (1973) with 1982 Dyno-My-Piano Pro EQ
Rhodie Preamp
KMD Flanger
Boss CE-2 (1982)
Amdek CHK-100 Chorus
MXR Phase 90 1974 Script Logo Reissue
MXR Phase 100 (1978)
Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 08
Korg MS-20 Mini
Yamaha MG10XU

Student Rhodes

Count me among those who are not completely gaga over the tone of the E piano.  Yes, I think it sounds very nice, but as far as cups of tea go, it's not what I'd like to have every morning.  Honestly, it's a little airy fairy for me.  Little too twinkly if you know what I mean. Were I to guess what it were, not knowing already, I would have thought by sound that it was a Mk II.  Still, it'd certainly be cool to have in the collection, for that sound, but I prefer something fatter and woolier.   As I've said before, I much prefer the sound of this piano: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD1nBPRZc-I
It's got twinkle, where needed, but it has a lot more body.
It may be sacrilege, but I'm also not a giant fan of the music this piano is famous for having played on.
Don't hate me. 

Student Rhodes

And another thing...
Every now and then, I read comments from people about "pre-CBS" Rhodes pianos.   
Well, I got news for you:  unless you're talking about a Piano Bass made during or before 1964, ALL Rhodes pianos are were made under the ownership of CBS, which took over Fender by I believe January of '65.   My understanding is that Fender didn't  mass produce the sparkle tops until Leo was out of the picture, as he wasn't a big fan of the sound. 
CBS also ran Rhodes when the "Fender" name was dropped as well, and did so until all Rhodes production ended in 85, followed shortly by CBS's sale of Fender.
Or maybe I'm a little off on the dates.   Anyone ever seen a '64 sparkle top?

The Real MC

Quote from: Student Rhodes on April 03, 2016, 12:47:40 AM
Every now and then, I read comments from people about "pre-CBS" Rhodes pianos.   
Well, I got news for you:  unless you're talking about a Piano Bass made during or before 1964, ALL Rhodes pianos are were made under the ownership of CBS, which took over Fender by I believe January of '65.

There were a handful of "pre-CBS" pianos but they sounded awful.  Go to the bottom of this page

http://www.fenderrhodes.com/pianos/early.html

Some 73/61 key pianos appeared in the 1963/64 catalog before CBS, along with the piano bass.  No such piano has surfaced to date, and years ago an owner claiming to own one posted an audio recording (but no pics) and it was a terrible sounding piano.

I've heard the piano basses from that era and frankly they don't sound very good either.  The tone generator was a cast one piece resonator/tine block whose tines had a very short life (they were simple piano wire), and they were very difficult to replace in the field.

QuoteAnyone ever seen a '64 sparkle top?

Can't argue with that one...

For all intents and purposes, the rhodes piano didn't come into being until CBS took over Fender.

Fred

It's funny that the Rhodes Service Manual does say that the early Piano Bass tines where "a length of piano wire". In my research for replacements, I found piano wire is not available ( and seemingly never was) in that diameter.

I'll also say that my Fiesta Red bass sounds great and records remarkably well. In over 12 years I have yet to break a tine (admittedly, one sounds a lil funky, hence my search for replacements). Could be setup, or a "to each his own" type of thing.
Head Designer of the Vintage Vibe Tine Piano
Collector
Electric Piano Technician in New Haven, Ct.
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vanceinatlance

I thought the early ones used chimes like a clock. I thought I remember reading somewhere where Harrold worked with a clock manufactureing company to produce some of the first piano tines. I could be totally wrong, Ill have to look through my saved articles...

Fred

You may be thinking of the Pre Piano, which does use ground steel rods similar to what is found in some clock chimes or toy pianos. The earliest Fender Rhodes pianos (which came later than the Pre Piano) feature a thinner diameter tine inserted into a 1 piece tone bar/generator block to form the first generation "asymmetrical tuning fork".
Head Designer of the Vintage Vibe Tine Piano
Collector
Electric Piano Technician in New Haven, Ct.
(203) 824-1528

vanceinatlance

#46
Ahhh, that must what I was thinking about.  I have an article from Keyboard magazine november of 77 that interviews Harold and it states that there are no pre cbs pianos, only the piano bass can claim to be a pre cbs as it was produced before his affiliation with cbs.
It also stated that the pre piano used tines made by the Torrington Needle Bearing Company. The Torrington Needle Bearing Company was manufacturing things for clock chimes at the time and he thought they would work better than what he was prevoiusly using. I think this is what I was remembering.
The article later refers to the tines as thin round pieces of music wire without eleborating further. (Oops, it did elaborate further) First tines were piano wire .075" in diameter. They broke too easy so the next tine wire base then started at .1" and tapered to .07" an inch out from the base and then tapering down to .06 from there to the tip. The third tine was swaged by the torrington needle bearing company. The third tine swaged down to .06 only a half inch from the tine's base.
This is one of the best articles I personally have seen yet on the Rhodes piano history and development as told by Harold himself. Wish there was a way to share it with everyone.

pnoboy

You could share it by scanning it and then putting the file in a Dropbox and sharing the link.  I, for one, would love to read it.

Froggy NR

#48
Just take my opinion as a newbie's, I am just getting on that rhodes thing since a few months.
I really think it has something to do with that amplification
and EQ on those recordings of the "E" . I can tell from owning a CE3 that the piano sounds very full tough I do not hang that much on the EQ.
I really dig that old seventies sound that Herbie and others had, like Tom o' gots on his Resolution 88 album. Rich low mids and creamy highs.
his is pure butter rhodes to my ears. Just taste and opinion.

I had my piano (1977 stage 73) voiced and tuned recently along with a VV Stereovibe preamp installed.
I got shocked when the guy who worked on it tested it thru his Janus system. The sound was huge, basses were deep and powerful, sharp mids and highs and the thing could also get crunchy at the same time. He told me not being a big fan of pre 75 pianos he had that thing on this one, and work has been fluid.

Got back home. Only options were an od solid state Peavey solo 65 with a few mods in it and my two Alesis Monitor One monitors.
The monitors option was the best option for a clean and full sound but sure it lacks some personality, while the Peavey can bu useful for a more muddy sound. Basses sound like carton box in it. Shitty. No deepness even with the knob all the way up.
As months passed by I guess I really forgot how great the piano could sound until a friend of mine let me try his Carvin Belair 212 tube amp.
I just re descovered my piano thru this amp and realised a very well voiced and sounding piano can sound dull with bad amp choices and EQ (a matther of taste once again).
Funny thing is I got Senheiser HD25 headphone I had slept on for a while since I use another from the start to practice at night. I decided to plug it back the other day to practice. I knew it has a tendency to compress some frequencies but was not expecting some serious change. Surprise ! Here I got this lovely and similar to Janus tone back again.

It's really like  the importance of each element is involved in the sound. This "E" rhodes sounds very full but I would really love to ear it with another EQ or a nice tube amp.