Pedestal felt thickness

[David Aubke]

This is kind of a nitpicky thing but I thought I'd throw the question out just to see if there are any opinions.

Along with some other work I'm doing on a 1974 will be the addition of some Miracle Mod bumps. The customer supplied some felt for the pedestals but I'm not sure I want to use it.

The original felt on these pedestals was 0.080" thick. The supplied replacement is 0.060". I have 0.080" felt that I could use. Think it makes any difference? Is it possible that in '74, they were careful enough to choose a felt thickness specifically to complement the relationship of the keys and hammers or do you think they just used what seemed appropriate or what was on-hand?

All things being equal, I always will opt to reproduce the original configuration and will likely use my 0.080" on this piano. Again, I'm just fishing for thoughts on the subject, if there are any.

[AvionKeys]

Hey David,

Morgen here with Avion Studios. We use the 0.080...I think we have it as 0.075 in our inventory but probably the same. I don't think those values will make too much of a difference either way. The pedestal felt has a dual role of being slightly cushioning/force dampening (but not too much) and sliding across the hammer arm. So too thick could eventually be an issue if you keep getting fluffier. Overly thin and you might lose some smoothness or even eventually get some clacking. Especially around the bump.

I would be more concerned with the quality of the felt. I personally find the internally braided (with white) red felt holds up much better in general. But either thickness will be a solid improvement over worn out felts. And the difference between the two proposed thicknesses should be VERY minor in my experience.


M

[David Aubke]

Thanks Morgen.

I guess the only thing that would give me pause is if someone thinks it was a mistake for Rhodes to use 0.080" in the first place. Obviously, that's not your view.

[AvionKeys]

My best advice, if you have a little time to spare on it - try both thicknesses on a few keys and see how they feel to you. In my experience it will be VERY subtle. But that's the best way to answer your question - investigate! We probably have fifty keys around with different felts, bumps, weights etc on them just so we could evaluate all the subtle differences when either designing or deciding on materials. It's sort of tedious, but also fascinating to think about just how complex the interplay of pieces can be....and on such a simple action like the Rhodes these choices can have some substantial impacts. More complicated actions like on upright pianos are more regulated such that the action will be pretty uniform by design. Not so with the Rhodes. It's quick and dirty and little things can really alter it.

Then later on down the line you can better explain your decision to clients and feel confident in your understanding and that you're doing the best work you can.

So, ultimately, if you're looking for someone to weigh in with a definitive position on this somewhat soft detail - you can be that guy.
Experimenting with things like this is pretty easy and then you'll not only know what works, but what you prefer. 

M

[pnoboy]

I used .075 felt in my Rhodes of the type that Morgan described.  It is sold as key-bushing felt by piano-supply companies.

[pianotuner steveo]

I personally would prefer the thinner so that the bump is still pretty prominent.

My 2 cents...

[David Aubke]

I personally would prefer the thinner so that the bump is still pretty prominent.

Too late.

[rhodesjuzz]

That looks prominent enough to me

Do you take the thickness of the felt into account when determening the exact location of the bump?

[David Aubke]

Do you take the thickness of the felt into account when determening the exact location of the bump?

I never have and it always seems to come out OK. I'm cleaning up the action rail right now. When I reinstall it, we'll see how the job came out. Here's where I placed it.


That's actually a different piano but a picture of this piano would have looked identical.

[rhodesjuzz]

That seems to be the one and only right place to me. After applying the felt I could imagine the hammer would go up a bit and so the location of the bump is altered. I guess the difference isn't noticeable
Thanks

[pianotuner steveo]

You may need to shim the harp up a tiny bit, assuming it was ideal before the mod. The felt you are using is thicker than the white felt.

Have you tested a few keys yet to see how they feel?

[David Aubke]

You may need to shim the harp up a tiny bit, assuming it was ideal before the mod. The felt you are using is thicker than the white felt.

This is a '74 where the original felts were 0.080" red, applied to the pedestals.

Here's what it looks like now.


Haven't got the harp on it yet so I can't report on how it feels.

[pianotuner steveo]

Sorry, I thought it had the white cam felts like I had on my '75. My bad. But now, I see you have half wood/plastic vs. all plastic....

[Ben Bove]

Spectacular placement.  Couldn't have drawn it better.

[David Aubke]

That looks prominent enough to me

To be fair, that photo was snapped immediately after removing the pedestal from my clamping rig. After a few minutes, the felt relaxes and fluffs back up.

After playing the KMC 1 with marcel curves, I feel confident that even if the felt hides the bump a little, the effect will still be there. Those marcel curves are very slight but unless confirmation bias is screwing with me, I say that KMC 1 feels great. Still slower than a Miracle-Modded all-plastic hammer but with a greater dynamic range.