Setting up my Fender Rhodes Mark 1

[disc0very]

Hi all,
After dreaming it for almost 20 years, i finally bought my first Fender Rhodes Mark I stage piano, manufactured 1973.

The electric piano is in a good shape, except some rust in the metal pieces in the exterior of the case and some minor signs of age around it.
I will later post some pictures, so you can give me your opinions about my purchase. 

Since this is the first Rhodes piano i play with i would like to share my impression so that any of you can eventually address me to fix what i believe is a problem.

Basically the first thing i noted using the piano is that i have to press quiet hard the keys to hear the sound, expecially in the low/middle keys.
This is something new to me, since i was expecting to get a dynamic/velocity attack as it happen on an acoustic piano.
Comparing it to some videos i've seen on youtube, my Mark 1 doesn't give a good response on lighty touch, while i think it should.
The issue *almost* disappear when i press the sustain pedal, giving the keys a clear response on more lighty touch.

Is this a problem on my Mark I? Is there a way to fix this?

Thanks for any help!

[Ben Bove]

Congrats on the '73!  A video definitely would help, showing the inside of the action as you play low notes (you can film the inside of the piano from the left side).

It may be a complicated explanation, but here's what I'm guessing your problem is.  If you hold down the sustain pedal and the issue nearly disappears, and the issue is in the low / low-mid area, then I believe the bridle straps on your damper arms are too loose.  This is a problem I sometimes see in early 70's Rhodes.  The bridle strap is attached to the hammer, and it pulls down the damper arm to allow the tine to swing.  If the strap is too loose, it won't pull down the damper enough and the tine will be muffled.

The sustain pedal's bar manually pushes down all the damper arms, which would allow for the tines to ring freely.  This pushes down the damper arms without using the bridle straps.  The muffling happens most in the low / low-mid area because the tines are the longest, and have the longest swing range where they could contact the felts.

Take a look inside your piano, and see if the green bridle straps pictured below have a lot of slack like this:






They should be relatively tight (not too tight) like the picture below:

[disc0very]

Hi Ben, thanks for the answer.

I think My feeling about the pedal was wrong, the issue remain even with pedal pressed.

It looks to me like the hammer is not easily reaching the tines, is it possible that i have to put the tines closer to the hammer?

Also i'm afraid that my audio setup is not the best to "tune" the Mark 1. I have connected the piano to my RME FF400, with maximum gain settings. An amp would be better i guess...

I tried to upload some videos but the forum refuse the message.
I will pm you with a link to get the videos.

I will post some pictures here as soon as i can be at my pc, hoping it can give you some ideas, thanks again!

[pianotuner steveo]

I would start by watching videos on Rhodes restoration on You Tube. You probably need to clean, lubricate and adjust the action, but it's always a good thing to clean first. Start by numbering and removing the keys, but please watch videos first. There's just too much to explain in a sentence or two, especially if you have no experience in piano repair. When you remove the keys, do NOT disturb/ remove the white and green felts underneath.

[disc0very]

I start feeling like it will be a long work to adjust this piano, but it sounds like a nice challenge to me... I want to get the best i can from it.

Attached some pictures where you can appreciate how much "old and dirty" the inside looks like.
Video coming soon, i will upload it somewhere and link you asap.

I will now start to watch YouTube videos of restoration as recommended, thanks.

[timpotent]

Rusty tines and pick-ups ... cleaning definitely is step 1 :-)

[pnoboy]

I had a similar problem on my stage '78--in the bass, notes wouldn't sound with a light touch.  The reason and cure were simple.  In the bass, the escapement is quite large, and the damper springs are quite stiff.  So, on a light keystroke, the damper springs would decelerate the hammer before it even made it to the tine.  After confirming that the escapement was proper, I slightly bent the damper springs to reduce their force.  Although this adjustment made the damping not quite so crisp, it was still fine, and greatly improved the action.  For someone who likes to pound the keys this issue might have not been perceived as a problem.

[disc0very]

Hi all and thanks for your replies!
I've being busy for a while, meanwhile i've met a guy who helped me to fix a bit the piano.
Under each key, in the middle, there is a felt. Who serviced my Mark I before i got it added some extra paper washers over those felts to ensure front keys alignment, but this was dramatically reducing each key course, so we decided to remove the paper off.
After that the keys are not to perfectly aligned on the front but the action is more easier and smooth than before.
Anyway i feel that the action is still quiet hard to manage, to get a typical overtoned sound i have to hit the keys very very strong, and the "slow dynamic" sound need some extra energy than it should in my opinion... so i believe something is not properly setted up.

I think my issue may be related to the dampers as suggested by pnoboy.

I attach 2 videos of the interior of my Mark I so that you can see the condition of the piano inside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEVln3CKMtE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD0q19drVXU

PS: I noted that the keys have a number printed on it, I find strange that in my first keys i see numbers not relative to that position... is this normal?

Thank u

[disc0very]

Hi again everybody.
I continue the inspection to understand what i can do to fix my "hard" dynamic piano action.
Yesterday i had chance to try a Fender Rhodes Mark I in a good state of preservation and with a good action, and i noted a huge difference to mine.
The tines on that piano were really new, most of mine are rusted. What to do to clean that rust without compromise the tine itself?
Apart from the damper issue mentioned by pnoboy, that may be part of the problem, I am focusing on to the hammers and to some thickness that i see on the lateral sides of the action.
About the hammers, it seems to me that the hammers are not reaching the tines with small touches. It could be because the tines are too high, or the dampers leaving the tines too late, anyway the hammer tips are not hitting the tines as expected with small touches.
My hammers tips are squared, can anyone explain me what differences between the shape of the hammers tips? Is the action using square tips a bit harder than other tips?
About the thickness i see on the lateral sides of the action i attach few pictures so you can see that.
Is it normal to have it? Was it added later? Those thickness raise the tine bars of about 2mm, could it be part of the problem?

Thanks to anyone and please forgive my bad english!

[rhodesjuzz]

These shims are quite normal. Just by reading your story and looking at your pictures (the way the dampers are resting against the tines and the height of your tonebars) I'd say you might wanna check your escapement: http://www.fenderrhodes.com/org/manual/ch4.html

[AvionKeys]

I saw from your videos you have some pretty rough felt tine dampers on there. And they're notched!
Those dampers have a couple issues - they're too soft and unbacked which makes them even more prone to folding over.
And some (maybe not yours) even have the wrong orientation of the felt grain which makes the tine sink in and can even make a hole in the middle over time.

Sorry to self promote on here, but we spent a lot of time working on a notched felt damper and I highly recommend it for your board.
As far as I know we're the only shop that makes a notched damper replacement.
Here's a link: http://www.avionstudios.com/rhodes/premium-notched-damper-felts-fender-rhodes

Remember to adjust the height of your harp to maximize the hammer strike first (because it's something you can't change much at all) and then adjust your dampers for proper escapement. If you're really going through the whole thing, I'd recommend pulling off everything, getting new bridle straps on there and straightening your aluminum damper strips completely flat (or close to flat) You can pre-bend a bit at the end if you want. But that should get you back to square one and generally you'll be doing minor adjusting upwards towards the tines after that. Try to keep the damper springs in order as the length does change which is especially important at the treble end.

Have fun! All the work is 100% worth it! 

[AvionKeys]

Some rude person submitted to us a form with a bogus email telling us that notched dampers were a "no no".
Since there is rightfully some skepticism about notched dampers I thought I would elaborate here....

There is definitely cause for dismay with the notched felts Fender used.....but that's because they had....lots of problems.
The Fender felt was too soft, unbacked, poorly cut/notched and sometimes had the wrong grain orientation.
It's wasn't a bad idea, just a terrible felt. (and occasionally foam!)

Obviously our dampers are substantially different. We've installed many many sets of our notched damper felts and they work exceptionally well.
The lift off is clean and the dampening is better, especially when the board does not have back-check as it compensates for the hammer bounce somewhat.

I think Fender was just being Fender, didn't have much keyboard/piano experience and used the cheapest felt (and foam) they could find.
Quality dampening felt is really expensive. We back ours in house because otherwise we'd have to sell sets for almost double the cost.
We could make the same thing everyone else does and sell it for $20 but we think these dampers are a worthy upgrade.

I guess we should make a demonstration video. I'll try to remember to add it to this thread when we do. (could be a couple months)

Rock on! 

[disc0very]

I decided to give up. There is too much to do and to know to get the piano action/sound to a proper level that i do not have time/patience/tools/experience to do it myself... so i decided to send the piano to a well-known vintage instrument's restorer in Italy.
The restorer told me he will change all the hammers tips and probably the dampers felts, adjust the escapement, adjust dampers position, fix a not working pickup, check the keys felts, the "miracle mod" felts, clean the wall thing and try to remove as much rust he can from tines trying not to compromize their function.
I will post some pictures when i will get the piano back so you can give me a judgement of the work he has done.
Thank u