Author Topic: Suitcase replacement speakers  (Read 3846 times)

Offline Cookymonster

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Suitcase replacement speakers
« on: September 26, 2016, 04:40:35 PM »
My old 1975 suitcase (Peterson amp) still has its original eminence alnico 12 inch speakers.
Nice vintage sound, although I think there is room for some improvement.
My tech (specialist amp repairman) indicates that new speakers or new cones may result in much better mids and highs.
I found the Jensen MOD12-50 at a very reasonable price.
However, according to the specs and sound samples on the Jensen website, the slightly more expensive (but stille affordable) C12N  should produce more articulate mids and highs...what an old suitcase may be missing a bit....

 
I will turn all my mountains into rhodes.

Offline vanceinatlance

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Re: Suitcase replacement speakers
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2016, 05:09:30 PM »
I have tried C12N speakers in a 81 suitcase. In my opinion, the highs are amazing and the mids are nice, but it really lacks in the lower bass. I personally liked the original stock speakers better. I have heard the older versions of the C12N are better sounding in the lower frequencies. The  piano has had a fair amount of use now, and I don't really hear any improvement in the lower range from break in. Just my experience, others may have had better success.

Offline pnoboy

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Re: Suitcase replacement speakers
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2016, 12:02:48 PM »
Eminence makes many excellent musical-instrument speakers--well worth checking out, and they're even made in the USA.

Offline Cookymonster

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Re: Suitcase replacement speakers
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2016, 12:44:36 PM »
I . In my opinion, the highs are amazing and the mids are nice, but it really lacks in the lower bass. I personally liked the original stock speakers better

OK thank you for this information. Very useful.
On my rhodes now the bass (flat) knob is turned entirely to the left. Because it's just too bassy / boomy.
The treble knob at the other hand is turned entirely to the right.
That's why I was heading towards this kind of speaker.
But there is a difference between exact, steady and powerful lows  versus  some loose boomy lows, I understand.

Eminence makes many excellent musical-instrument speakers--well worth checking out, and they're even made in the USA.

I wil certainly look at these too.  Being made in the USA is perhaps not a great advantage to me...I live in Europe.  ;) 
But from the quality point of view, it certainly is...
I will turn all my mountains into rhodes.

Offline Cookymonster

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Re: Suitcase replacement speakers
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2016, 06:30:13 PM »
This is a comparison I found of the Jensen mod 12-50  and the C12N
RED is the C12N
Blue the MOD 12-50

][URL=http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Accou/media/SHUTTLE57/Pictures/Compare%20Jensen%20C12N%20vs%20Mod%2012-50_zpsbob1a7oo.jpg.html][/url]

Both do not stand out for bass performance. Although this should be OK ?
The MOD 12-50 doing slightly better than the C12N (about 5db at 50Hz)
In the mid-range the C12N is obviously more aggressive. In the highs they seem about equal.
The MOD 12-50 being the better of the 2 according to this graph ?




I will turn all my mountains into rhodes.

Offline Ben Bove

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Re: Suitcase replacement speakers
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2016, 11:34:47 AM »
I've put modern C12-N speakers in a suitcase before, and they did sound great.  If there is any bass loss, the Peterson preamp specifically has a big boost if you turn bass all the way up.  The Peterson bass boost knob on a scale of 1-10 has about 3 settings - between 1-3 is no bass, 3-8 is "normal bass," and then when you turn the knob between 8-10 the bass can really boom.  So I would put a vote in for C12-N as good speakers, especially that the factory speakers usually lack a good mid-high register.  Then, if these Mod 12-50 are closely equivalent, they may also be a good choice.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 11:37:08 AM by Ben Bove »
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Offline Cookymonster

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Re: Suitcase replacement speakers
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2016, 05:09:12 PM »
Thanks Ben. This is actually what I suspect.
I will soon have the opportunity to check them out both !
According to a friend (guitar player) who uses both speakers, the CH/mod version also  has pretty clear mid/highs.
I will let everybody know the results.

I will turn all my mountains into rhodes.

Offline Cookymonster

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Re: Suitcase replacement speakers
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2016, 06:09:28 PM »
OK.  I had the opportunity to try them both.
And guess what ?  Still in doubt. Although.
The C12N  definately produces brighter mid and high, something this Peterson suitcase amp/cabinet could use.
But in a way that I feel the need to readjust volume levels for some pickups in the mid-high. And I am not looking to touch the voicing of my instrument.
The bass is somewhat less  than the CH/MOD. It is still OK, but I had to turn up the concentric knob for extra bass. This makes it to my tasyte more boomy and less articulate than the CH/MOD.
Strange...it has a bigger magnet than the CH-MOD (always thought that this would guarantee better bass definition).
So for the moment I lean a little towards the less expensive CH/Mod.
I like the sound with the bass knob  about half way (still accurate and articulate with an nice body) and the treble knob all the way up.
From the player position it would have been nice to still have some more transparancy and brilliance...but then I realise that it's a suitcase,
with the speakers at knee-height. If I bring my ear under the keys, brilliance is sufficient
And, oh, the CH/Mod is about 2Lbs lighter than the C12N. For what it's worth.
I will turn all my mountains into rhodes.

Offline The Real MC

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Re: Suitcase replacement speakers
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2016, 07:26:16 PM »
The suitcase cabinet may not be conducive to bass response as it is pretty shallow.  There's a reason why bass cabinets are at least twice as deep.

Offline Groove4Hire

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Suitcase replacement speakers
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2016, 03:42:44 PM »
What about these? Can be made in 32ohm version...

http://www.tedweber.com/chi12f
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 04:10:41 PM by Groove4Hire »
Jon
Rhodes-tech, www.vintagebua.no, Norway

Offline Cookymonster

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Re: Suitcase replacement speakers
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2016, 04:56:39 PM »
Looks great. Sound samples are pretty convincing.
But with its heavy magnet, doesn't it offer too much from the small 40W amps in the suitcase ?
And it weighs 10.6 Lbs. The Jensen Mod only 4.05 Lbs
Jensen also costs less than half the Webers. It counts for 4 speakers...

The suitcase cabinet may not be conducive to bass response as it is pretty shallow.  There's a reason why bass cabinets are at least twice as deep.
My old Fender Bassman Ten provides nice bass and is even more shallow.
I think suitcase cabinets suffer more from "boomy" bass than real production of low end frequencies.
I guess cabinet/case construction plays a big role in this.
Unlike  real hifi speakers there has been very modest attention to reducing the Q-factor like with bracings, damping materials...
I guess this would have made the cabinet un-transportable.
And damping material in a cabinet with an amplifier ?  ???

My self made DIY 3way hifi speakers weigh 120Lbs ...each.
And they are only 3ft high...lead bitumen between two layers of mdf and stuff... 

 


I will turn all my mountains into rhodes.