How's the Rhodes market doing?

Started by David Aubke, May 05, 2017, 07:13:02 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

David Aubke

Until about six months ago, I could always see at least one decent deal listed in my local(ish) Craig's List. Lately, not so much. And I could be mistaken, but it seems like ebay hasn't been as forthcoming as it used to be. I only see a handful of pianos and all for high asking prices.

I've been playing pretty fast and loose with pianos, assuming the next unit is always available somewhere in nearby classified listings. But I'm wondering if I need to adjust my values a little for a tightening market.
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

Alan Lenhoff

I've noticed this in Michigan, too. The local CL has generally been a reliable source of roughly 4-5 Rhodes at most any time.  Recently, there have typically been 1-2, and prices are often quite high.  (I think that listings for professionally refurbished pianos on eBay and Reverb have convinced a lot of sellers that their beat-up Stage pianos without legs or pedals are worth those kinds of premium prices, too.) But I think the supply and prices tend to ebb and flow, and six months from now, we could just as well be talking about a glut of cheap Rhodes pianos on the market.

Alan
Co-author, "Classic Keys: Keyboard Sounds That Launched Rock Music"

Learn about the book: http://www.classickeysbook.com/
Find it on Amazon.com: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1574417762/

1965 UK Vox Continental;1967 Gibson G101 organ; 1954 Hammond B2; Leslie 21H; Leslie 31H; 1974 Rhodes Mark I Stage 73; 1972 Rhodes Sparkletop Piano Bass; 1978 Hohner Clavinet D6; 1968 Hohner Pianet N II; 1966 Wurlitzer 140B; 1980 Moog Minimoog Model D; 1983 Roland JX-3P; 1977 Fender Twin Reverb; 1983 Roland JX-3P synth; Vox AC30CC2X amp.
(See the collection: https://vintagerockkeyboards.com/ )

Ben Bove

Prices have started to go up from at least 3-5 years ago.  I think Alan hit it on the head, I look at Reverb.com and gawk at what people are asking for literally unserviced, garage finds.  For those that don't know what they have, they may be going online to ebay and some of the highline vintage key restorers, and saying "Rhodes piano - oh, they're going for $3,000." 

The only combatant to that is people not buying these pianos.  I for one haven't found nearly as many pianos pop up, like you're saying David.

Retro Rentals
Vintage Music Gear

http://www.retrorentals.net
(818) 806-9606
info@retrorentals.net

FB: https://www.facebook.com/retrorentals.net/
IG: @RetroRentalsNet

pianotuner steveo

#3
As I have said before, the EP market is dead in my area. Not only did I used to find sweet deals, even free ep's, but I used to have several Wurlitzer and Rhodes clients.
So far, since January, I have repaired one Rhodes, and that was only because I noticed it in the room that an acoustic piano I was tuning was in. I inquired and they said a few keys didn't work, and I offered to repair it for just a little bit more than what I was charging for the piano, and they went for it. It's been a good solid year since I've worked on a Wurlitzer (other than my own)
I am near Albany, NY. Not a huge population, but a lot of small cities and towns. Just not many eps anymore.
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

rhodesjuzz

David, is your question about the US market only or outside of it as well?  Prices have gone up here (Netherlands) also but not really dramatic. That said, prices here have always been higher over here compared to what I mostly saw on ebay (US). Shipping costs are extremely high so it's cheaper to buy local (or surrounding countries).

I also noticed that more instruments from the Fender era are being offered lately as well as restored Rhodes pianos (none techs I believe).

The market for the latest Rhodes (the one we cannot mention) is also starting to grow....

--Roy
1976 Rhodes Suitcase 73 <effects loop || EHX Holy Grail Nano>
Line 6 midi keys
Scarbee Mark I, A-200 and Classic EP-88S

mvanmanen

Here in Alberta, Canada I think we are feeling the market slow down effecting all vintage instruments for sale. Everything seems to take longer to sell, price drops are more common, and I suspect actual sell prices are lower...yet overall I do not think we are seeing and more or less wurlitzer, rhodes, etc. showing up for sale.
Wurlitzer 200a
Wurlitzer 145
Fender Rhodes (1966, 1971, 1975)
Hohner Clavinet Pianet Duo
Hohner Clavinet D6s and C
Hohner Pianet T
Hohner Pianet N and Combo Pianet
Hammond B3

solomoncowan

Here in Atlanta is kinda stagnant right now. I keep my eyes open for killer deals but those are few and far in between. The same couple of pianos have been on the market for a while. Some may last a few months, some a few years. Most of the pricing seems fair between 1000-2000 for ready to play, partially refurbished pianos. I got my stage about 10 months ago for 700 in decent shape, almost ready to play (just needed a few minor things here and there, as well as a few mods). Some are ridiculously priced. There's one in particular that has been trying to sell on craigslist and Facebook pages for a few years, 2700 for a suitcase that has never been worked on or serviced since factory, it is at an antique store and their main selling point is all %100 original, perfect, rare, mint, vintage. While the tolex and outward appearance looks good, there are no pictures under the hood or any description of its playing state. I tried asking a few questions about it one day but they knew absolutely nothing about it, I tried telling them it would probably sell at the price they are asking if they get it properly serviced and setup, but they're not budging. They seem to be very proud of their rotting grommets and hammer tips. Another funny one is a Yamaha CP80 that gets posted very often. They dont even advertise that its a CP80, their ad says STUNNING EBONY UPRIGHT, IMMACULATE CONDITION, RARE, %100 ORIGINAL YAMAHA GRAND PIANO with nothing actually describing the condition or state of the instrument. I tried messaging them to let them know their description and title was incorrect but they never responded. They just keep re-posting the "STUNNING EBONY UPRIGHT" for the same insane amount of money. Some people here in Atlanta are a little out of touch with reality.

David Aubke

Well, my hypothesis was that electro-mechanical pianos were experiencing a resurgence.

Fewer listings could indicate either a boom or bust but higher prices suggests the former.
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

Student Rhodes

There's definitely a phenomenon of people asking top dollar for these pianos, regardless of condition.
A predictable outcome of the resurgence in popularity of an instrument that is just harder to find than a digital keyboard or controller.
A simple google search makes the uninformed aware of what a proper Rhodes can fetch, and they're not going to want anything less.
The days of finding a playable Rhodes for under five bills are largely gone, except for the guys who are always checking garage sales, second hand stores etc.
Here in Los Angeles, there are a couple guys who advertise on craigslist to take bulky, battered old Rhodes pianos off people's hands for $200-$300, no doubt to be stripped and sold for parts, tines mostly.  Bums me out.  I've seen a lot of that happening with guitars on ebay as well.  Perfectly functional Supros, Danelectros, Harmonys etc being stripped and sold in pieces... ugh.  But I suppose I'm part of the problem, as I only discovered these people when I was looking for parts, which I purchased.

Peter Hayes

I don't think this is limited to Rhodes. I go to a lot of estate sales and garage sales where truly crappy LPs have a really high price. I've asked several sellers who tell me that one just like this is for sale on Ebay right now for $XXXX. I think the general public uses Ebay current asking prices (not completed sales) for what they are trying to sell, no matter what it a like item actually sells for.
Peter Hayes
Electronic Edge
http://www.elecedge.com
937-767-7174

sookwinder

On top of all the above there is also the phenomenon  where by someone attempts to sell an item at a price based upon what they purchased the item for.  Sometimes the asking price is so far away from reality one wonders whether the sellers have taken their medicine that day.

If the 90s there was a s**t load of vintage instruments (mainly guitars) sold to Japanese buyers, when Japans economy was booming.  Now 20 years later the Japanese economy had been in the doldrums all that time and these sellers are attempting to sell their instruments for 2x, 3x, even 5x what the current market place values them at.

Another thing to consider is that by definition there is a known/limited number of instruments available (that number slowly reducing as time goes by), so economic and availability causes surges in sales.

3 years ago when the Aussie $ was really high against the US $ I knew it was a short window for me to get some of the vintage guitars (electric and acoustic) that I had been  dreaming of.  Along with the depression in the US market place meant that many cost me only 40 - 50% of what they would now cost me ...  if they were even available.

In short, like everything in life, one needs to do one's home work.
Late 60s Pianet N - Late 70s Pianet T - Ensoniq ESQ1 - Hammond XK2 - Wurli 206A converted to a 200A - 1973 Rhodes Stage 73 - Roland RD150 - Vintage Vibe 64 EP - s**t load of guitars, basses & amps

The Real MC

I've been surfing eBay since 2000 and have never seen so many Rhodes pianos at such high prices go without a bid.  I think the market has spoken that sellers are asking too much for them.

pnoboy

A couple of years ago, I read about a psychological phenomenon that causes people to value their own stuff higher than the same items owned by someone else.    I see the same phenomenon with used acoustic pianos.  People want silly money for absolute crapola, and then get offended if you make them a reasonable offer.  What often happens is that someone will want to sell their late mother's piano, let's say, and they get a piano tuner to appraise it, which he/she does at an unreasonably high price, probably to make their customer feel good.  At that point, the seller thinks that god has ordained the high price, and they won't budge.  You can sometimes see the same pianos on Craigslist for months and months.

David Aubke

Quote from: pnoboy on May 15, 2017, 03:46:27 PMI see the same phenomenon with used acoustic pianos.  People want silly money for absolute crapola, and then get offended if you make them a reasonable offer.

Seems to me that acoustic pianos are fetching negative selling prices these days. That is, you've got to pay people to take them away.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/arts/music/for-more-pianos-last-note-is-thud-in-the-dump.html
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

Peter Hayes


Seems to me that acoustic pianos are fetching negative selling prices these days. That is, you've got to pay people to take them away.

This is sad.
Peter Hayes
Electronic Edge
http://www.elecedge.com
937-767-7174

David Aubke

Quote from: Peter Hayes on May 16, 2017, 07:54:01 AM

Seems to me that acoustic pianos are fetching negative selling prices these days. That is, you've got to pay people to take them away.

This is sad.

[Tangent]I still love mine. I grew up learning to play on a Baldwin Acrosonic that my grandparents bought new in the 50s. When my mom passed away, it moved to my uncle's house where it lived for twenty years. A couple of years ago, I retrieved it and have been playing it nearly daily ever since. It's pretty nostalgic to sit there and remember the hours - some of them good, some of them not so good - working through the John Thompson books.[/Tangent]
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

Oliver Sheen


David Aubke

Come to think of it, it was Michael Aaron.

And here it is: the tune that almost ended my piano career before it started.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJxsOimnrqA

I remember distinctly staring with white hot rage at Page 23 of the Michael Aaron Grade 1 book. No matter what I did, I couldn't make the slurs sound the way my teacher wanted and it became a battle of wills - he making me start from the top over and over again, me making it sound worse and worse with each iteration. Soon after, I quit piano and didn't pick it up again for about three years.

Good times.

Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

Oliver Sheen

Ah in that case my last post will mean absolutely nothing. Bill Grogan's Goat was in the JT book 1 and it was the only tune my brother could play when he was learning. Used to drive us all crazy as he played it all the time and got faster and faster.

As you say, good times  :)

David Aubke

Not at all. I've encountered BGG somewhere in a "Learn to Play..." book. It's my jam.
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

David Aubke

I think we covered the original topic pretty well anyway...

Lately, I've been wondering, how it is that students of the acoustic piano don't drive all of their neighbors crazy? These days I'm well away from the next house but I grew up in a pretty densely packed neighborhood. I don't remember being self-conscious about practicing but I have to believe the neighbors were thinking something similar to "Oh god, not Bill Grogan's Goat again!"
Dave Aubke
Shadetree Keys

Oliver Sheen

Ha If only JT got performance royalties on each playing of it - he'd be a millionaire

e-soul91

It seems to me like these vintage instruments are getting very popular again, Rhodes, Hammond organ, Wurlitzer EP, Clavinet...all of them are sought after due to "nothing beats original" phrase. As to why are they becoming popular in an era of digital music, I don't know.

I live in a small country in Europe where even Mark II goes for 2000 euros and up. I am so lucky to have found my Mark I in a very good condition for 900 euros. And as with everything, these instruments are worth as much as people are gonna pay for them.
'77 Mark I Stage 73

"If butter had a sound, it would sound like Rhodes piano" -someone from the internet.

JanustheManus

The Bay Area Rhodes market seems to come in waves. Right now there is nothing for sale; and sometimes there will be that snooty seller selling his "needs some work" '78 stage for $2000.

But once every blue moon, there will be 5-7 listings of bargains.
Why didn't Fender Rhodes stick with the lovely reflective Sparkle Top rail?

armstrongsound

There's always at least one or two here in Central-South Texas, generally unserviced and unrestored, going for at least $900 and up.

I got real lucky when I found my '70 Seventy-Three Suitcase for 250. Did have to drive to Dallas (7-plus hours round-trip) but how do you pass up a deal like that?!
1970 Fender Rhodes Mk I Seventy-Three Suitcase (no suitcase amp)
1968 Fender Vibrolux (aa864 circuit)
1947 Hammond CV
1947 Hammond DR-20
1970s Leslie 760
1969 Hammond T202
1956 Hammond S6
1982 Kustom 88
90s Young Chang Upright
Hohner Melodica

JanustheManus

You're very lucky. Big props to you making a 7 hour plus drive.
Why didn't Fender Rhodes stick with the lovely reflective Sparkle Top rail?

Rhodestech Robocop

#26
The asking prices are maybe related to what a new Rhodes costs , the ones that Vintage Vibe puts on the market and the former other producer of mk7.
People maybe think that it is okay to ask 50 % of that new price.

I relate price directly to tine-quality ......good sustain , warm character , good dynamic response , good volume. The bottom 24 tines are less critical than the rest. Generally the chance of buying a really good one is bigger between th 1972 and 1976 years ( I have not seen much before that era), although a satisfying Rhodes can be found in every year , as are the mediocre ones with duller tines.

When I first started buying Rhodes I bought a Mark 5 once which I sold within a few weeks because I did not like the sound (tines). I later regretted to have sold the action , but I can make a satisfying action with standard earlier keybeds.

In the Netherlands there is still a regular supply of Rhodes and people tend to bid around €900 euro's for a piano without overhaul. A lot of players go for a Nordlead or Korg thingy that is good enough for live and are easy to mix.

Personally I would like to see the early tines make a comeback  , these had a fit over the entire tine-"block" instead of the 1975-1982 tines. Saw two blocks through and you see the difference. This must have been much more difficult and precise job. Either with a shorter or longer taper. The shorter on the 1974 midrange gives some extra juice and response , although a good longer taper can sound nice and Herbish.